| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Music Industry | |
| Mike -- 02/07/2004, 11:26:04 -- #1076181963 | |
| Band Politics | |
| The singer I have been rehearsing with booked a gig for us. When I asked how much the club was paying, she hedged. She said she was not telling me and she had not decided how much she was paying me yet. Up till that point I had never said I would work for her, only that we would get together and the we talked about working together, then I have been busting ass for a month learning her tunes and figuring out her keys and picking material and arranging for her. Then she tells me she has booked the gig under her name only. So I let her know I did not like it but let it sit over night before I told her it was all unacceptalbe. She called this a "conflict of interest" Lol Yah a conflict that I have my own ass to look out for. Anyways Band Politics are a big part of the Music Industry, I for one have always had a hard time with them. Unintentionally, Most bands I have been in I end up being a band breaker. When I get in someone elses band, I am and exceptionally hard worker and end up haveing a strong impact. When the inevetable happens that I get frustrated with a band and leave other people tend to make that thier final straw too. When I have my own bands i always build them to the point I am hiring the strongest players I can find and seems inevetably one of them feels the need to try a power play. So I have talked about incorporating my own bands before but have never actually got to that point. I know people who have. How about you all how do you deal with Band Politics? Or do you? | |
| Mike -- 02/07/2004, 11:28:07 -- #1076182086 | |
| oh so the end of that story was that I severed my business relationship with that singer. Better to nip it in the bud now I figured, rather than wait till I got very agravated. | |
| Whacky -- 02/07/2004, 14:10:49 -- #1076191848 | |
| is she good looking? why were you rehearsing if you didn't have a gig? I've had many a good looking babe show me here boobies in hopes of leading me around by the nose...no thanks - (if I want to see boobies I'll just get online:) Back in the day, I had so many gigs there was no time to rehearse unless I was getting paid for it...nowadays, I make more teaching piano in my house than most club gigs pay, so unless it's something I really want to do - nah...(and it usually isn't) As for singers, I got pretty tired of them expecting the keyboard guy to do all the work (write charts, bring all the equipment, set up, tear down, program drum machines, etc..) so they can prance around the room looking pretty (or tittie:) | |
| Mike -- 02/07/2004, 15:46:48 -- #1076197607 | |
| well I had read about her in the newspaper and then I met her in a nightclub. So I invited her to my house to just jam a couple of tunes and see what happened. Fact is she can sing her ass off. Bassically she can do the whole Aretha Franklin thing. She can handle a whole bunch of material like no singer I ever worked with, so that interested me. The vast majority of singers I have worked with before have been so lame that if I was not laying down some record copy type arrangement they would fall apart. This girl had the ability to jam with anything I layed down as if she were a sax player and that intregued me. But everything else you say was true. I had to write the charts. Figure out her keys. Find recordings of source material, lyrics, everything. As far as she was concerned it was she that did everything though.... why... I dont know.... because she had tits? I don't know even on that point, I'm pretty out of shape at this point, I'll give that my tits are not as big as hers for sure, but at this point I think I got some just about. | |
| Kai -- 02/08/2004, 06:23:17 -- #1076250197 | |
| The manipulative Singer | |
| Re " I severed my business relationship with that singer. Better to nip it in the bud now I figured, rather than wait till I got very agravated. ". Good move, Mike. You gotta look out for yourself no matter how manipulative your partner/friend/colleague gets. It sometimes seems that all of life is such a fight these days. That's why it's good to have kind and considerate friends who are happy to share - like on this site. | |
| Thesaurus Of Scales And Melodic Patterns by Nicolas Slonimsky | |
| jmjelder -- 02/09/2004, 09:03:20 -- #1076346199 | |
| Mike, In the future it miight be wise to define your relationship before doing the work. If the singer just wants you play piano on her gigs that is one thing. Then she can supply the charts etc. If you are required to pick the keys, work out arrangements etc. that another. The title for that is Music Director and Arranger and should be paid accordingly. If she books the gig that is her gig but unless she is paying you a regular salary it would be up to you to make the gig or not. So, up front, define your responsibilities and compensation needed. Make or allow no assumptions and that should minimize the problems and keep things professional. Joe | |
| Maybeck Recital Hall Series: Hal Galper | |
| sid -- 02/10/2004, 08:45:12 -- #1076431512 | |
| I'm working quite a bit with a singer lately. She has a big personality to go with her voice. Most jazz musicians I know (including me) have the charisma of an iceberg lettuce. I like doing stuff with someone who connects with an audience. I don't allow band politics to interfere with my enjoyment of just playing the music. But there again, music isn't my day job and I might feel differently if it was a choice between band wars and starving. sid | |
| 7 -- 02/10/2004, 09:45:59 -- #1076435159 | |
| Music Industry: REQUIRED READING | |
Do you ever wonder why some musicians make it in the music industry and others don't? We've all heard great bands that never even made it off the ground! Where did they go wrong? The truth is they didn't cover all their bases. This site gives you the real deal on How Musicians Get an Edge in the Music Business! http://www.just-for-musicians.com/ | |
| Barry -- 02/10/2004, 09:59:19 -- #1076435959 | |
| I've seen that sight 7 and it's really good..... People, If you don't take the advice there then it's your own fault.... | |
| Scot -- 02/10/2004, 10:27:53 -- #1076437673 | |
| Great site, wow. I contacted the guy and asked him if he'd put a link to LJP on his main page in return for me putting a link to his site on my main page. Free information sites like ours should stick together! | |
| dharminor -- 11/05/2004, 17:53:10 -- #8663 | |
| I'm studying music biz now and alot of entertainment law. Get everything in writing! A verbal contract is only legit if the person your working with is so honest they'd go against themselves in an arguement, let alone, whether they have any prior loyalty to you or not.(not likely!) And how are you going to prove who is telling the truth. You need a paper trail to prove anything and as far as a written contract is concerned, you need to negotiate your terms into a contract to get anything you want and protect yourself. If you just sign a venue's contract then its on their terms and they can put penalties in for you breaching the contract because they are protecting themselves.(NOT YOU) But if you take part in the contract or add your terms to their current contract and have them sign it you can protect yourself from them breaching the agreement. The best advice in matters of money and business is to take an overly cautious approach. Though it sounds distrusting and cynical it will save you alot of headaches and wasted time in the future. Also a book I highly recommend reading: "All You Need To Know About The Music Business" fifth edition By Donald S. Passman If your trying to make money making music this book is like the bible of music business | |
| Thesaurus Of Scales And Melodic Patterns by Nicolas Slonimsky | |
| Scot -- 11/06/2004, 02:35:52 -- #8673 | |
| Yep, getting it in writing is very important unless of course the situation is friendly one or something. I re-learned that lesson last holiday season when a club cancelled three nights of music two days before... thu, fri, sat.. And I couldn't do anything but give them bad press. It's like losing your wallet- you do it once, and then for years you don't do it again. But then you get a little careless cause you haven't lost it, and then you lose it again. And then you say, "I'll never lose it again." :) | |
| Maybeck Recital Hall Series: Hal Galper | |
| jbl81 -- 01/05/2005, 21:16:53 -- #10144 | |
| composing | |
| Is there any money in amateur composing? I don't plan (or desire) to quit my dayjob, nor does it fail to provide financially. But, I do some composing on the side, and I'm curious if it's worth trying to make a dime at the same time. I'm well aware of more accomplished composers who'll get commisioned to do work. But do any amateur composers ever get paid? Do sheet music publishing houses have any interest in paying a few bucks for a composition? Does the pop industry buy tunes and turn around to have someone else perform/record/produce them? I've composed a pop-song or two, but most of what I've done is [neo?]Romantic stuff (in the vein of Chopin, Brahms, Rachmaninoff, Glass). Is one type of music more marketable than the other? I'm guessing pop songs are easier to pawn off--and also I care a great deal less about what is done with them. Any suggestions for further reading? Good books on the subject? | |
| Scot -- 01/09/2005, 23:43:31 -- #10255 | |
| There's a lot of money to be made in writing tunes for pop music, country music, etc. Nashville is full of writers who write tunes for many of the names in the top 100. Film scoring is a place to get into composition, but it's a hard racket to break into, unless you can establish yourself as a "ghost writer" for a while. Most big film composers have ghost writers doing a large amount of the work for them these days. Some times it scoring for the orchestra (you think Danny Elfman scores his own stuff?), or even writing fill material. You can break more easily into film scoring if you do some indie's for free. I just turned down an indie because my winter schedule was so tough. I wish the guy would have contacted me this month instead of last... Big band people tend to make money on their scores if they are good. Sibeliusmusic.com has really helped that happen. If you have some tunes you may consider putting them up on http://www.sibeliusmusic.com (providing you use Sibelius) where people will buy them if they like them. You can gain quite a following on that site and use your name to help break into other markets. It's tougher than just being a player, that's for sure, but from one composer to another, the work is worth it. Personally, I like to perform my compositions and then after I've done them on stage for a while I put them away and move on to newer stuff. If I recorded, I'd probably have six or seven CD's of my own material, but I hate recording so that's where that goes. | |
| jbl81 -- 01/10/2005, 21:52:46 -- #10280 | |
| Scot, thanks for the reply. I hadn't really considered soundtrack scoring before. From your experience, how competetive is that industry? I don't have any aspirations of doing it fulltime, but I'd be interested in trying some indie film some time -- maybe I'll check around at the art schools here (Chicago) with film students... | |
| Ryan -- 01/10/2005, 23:36:46 -- #10282 | |
| Hey JBL, Just thought I'd put in my "two cents." Like Scot says, the pop market is really where the money is, so if you can write tunes, by all means do it! If you're into the classical stuff more, definitely try and get into some film scoring. Like Scot was saying too, even if you just write the tunes, it's extremely common for others to actually do all the orchestration. The reason is that the music is basically all done dead LAST when the budget has gone over and the deadline is essentially there, so the composer then gets about 6 weeks for a score more or less! As a teacher once told me, composers in the film industry are the "pimple on the butt of the fly on the horse's butt...or something like that..." :) Anyway, even John Williams has an orchestrator, granted I've heard that he gives his orchestrators pretty specific sketches. Anyway, it is an extremely tough business to get into, and like many other jobs today, it's really WHO you know and who knows YOU. It's a very people involved business, and that's why most people head out to LA to get the contacts going even if they have to do odd jobs just to live for a while. Speaking of that area, it might be nice to hear from SMG, as I believe he's on the prowl trying to do this very thing out there. Maybe he can speak of his experiences thus far... That being said, the best way to get started is exactly what you mentioned...check the film schools at local universities, and other indie film websites. You'll probably end up doing that for next to nothing, if not nothing, but you build your contacts, and hopefully, the idea is that they'll call you again when they have the money to pay you! If you want to get started right away, take some clips of tv commercials or cartoons or movies and try putting your own music to it. Then get a website going and show everyone what you have to offer. Try to do a lot of different styles. For example, some things that I've done to get me going include the movie "Contact" (right in the beginning where it was just all silence and planets for around 3 minutes) and the Tom and Jerry cartoon:) Also, if you can get into TV jingles, there's plenty of money to be made there if you can stand it! Again, you just have to get in with the people and be able to talk to the "creative" ad agents and understand what they're trying to tell you they want when they really sometimes have no idea! Finally, if you're so inclined, start selling sheet music on the side. Sibelius or whatever. I've been selling stuff from my own site for a while, and it does ok...basically just enough to pay the hosting plus a little bit to keep it going. It at least gets your stuff out there. The key to that success is google basically. The things that sell the best are contemporary / moderately easy piano charts, and like Scot said, there is money to be made in big band charts as well. Anyway, alot to read there! I hope that gives you a few ideas, Good luck! | |
| jbl81 -- 01/12/2005, 20:30:33 -- #10320 | |
| Ryan, thanks also for your comments. You and scot both had a lot of good advice (if SMG is lurking around, it sounds as he may have some good insight too!).. I think for now I'm very happy just composing a couple pieces a year and giving them away to whomever will take them. After I get some different styles and a bit more skill under my belt though, I may try to hook up with someone on a movie gig. Thanks! | |
| Thesaurus Of Scales And Melodic Patterns by Nicolas Slonimsky | |
| Scot -- 01/13/2005, 11:58:42 -- #10351 | |
| Having your stuff on a website is a way of marketing that has never been around before. Take advantage of it and advertise it once you have some stuff up. This just happened to me. I put up a page last month with some desktop backgrounds - http://www.tyrinth.com/back - and last week just sold the rights to 12 of them for a local calendar. I have three people on the books that want portraits, and I don't even know what to do :) But I'm great at faking it. Anyway, I've never tried to be a professional photography, but now people are giving me money to take pictures. Whoa! That's what happened with piano, too! So get your stuff out there, put ads in indie film magazines for your website once it's up, and if your stuff is good and you are really flexible about how you will work, hey, you'll get business. | |
| Maybeck Recital Hall Series: Hal Galper | |
| MoJazz -- 01/31/2005, 08:08:46 -- #10838 | |
| Jonathan Wolff - TV Composer | |
| Here's an interesting interview of Jonathan Wolff who composes music for TV shows - Seinfeld, Will And Grace and many more. He is very frank and honest about what it takes to get started and how he became successful in the music industry. http://www.taxi.com/faq/ftv/wolff-tv-1.html | |
| Scot -- 01/31/2005, 18:48:48 -- #10856 | |
| It's nice to read about the path people like that took to get where they are. It also underlines something very important- it's not how good you are, it's who you know! If you want to do music, then you've got to immerse yourself in it, live where it happens, go to the parties and bars where you can meet the right people to help you meet the other right people. Thanks for the link! | |
| dharminor -- 02/25/2005, 17:56:52 -- #11586 | |
| networking is absolutely key. Just look at the extreme example of Ashley Simpson who got a record contract 100% because of who her sister and father are in the industry. Anyway totally agree with you Scot it's who you know. | |
| jenny fer -- 10/22/2005, 01:02:50 -- #20153 | |
| Help | |
| I'm only 15 (nearly 16), but I'm at that stage where I need to think about what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. And I feel that my calling is towards music. I've known this for ages, but I know that teaching piano doesn't bring in that much money (most piano teachers I know work two jobs and still do it tough). My parents want me to do teaching (not music teaching) but I really dont want to. My dream is to be a jazz pianist, I've just been introduced to jazz this year and I absolutely love it. But I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to make a living doing what I love and if there are any courses I should take (eg. business studies). | |
| SolArt -- 10/24/2005, 13:32:25 -- #20252 | |
| I certainly wouldn't dismiss teaching, when you get older & discover you're not famous after all (best wishes though) you'll wish you had done things differently. Practice, practice, practice! If I could set back the clock I would've studied piano tuning & repair; or dentistry. How hard can the latter be? Then I could today have a concert grand, etc. My honest advice, FINISH your education & for God's sake keep away from women until you have your papers, young man! | |
| Thesaurus Of Scales And Melodic Patterns by Nicolas Slonimsky | |
| wdennissorrell -- 10/24/2005, 22:30:42 -- #20293 | |
| My best advice for any type of career is that you do what you really like. It would suck to be a slave to any occupation. I have been exceedingly fortunate in my life, but I only play music as a part-time endeavour. It is very difficult to make a living in any of the arts, but if that is what you want to do, please do it. Just have something to fall back upon. Hunger is the worst of bosses. I don't want to sound to negative, it is just that the real world pretty much sucks, financially, for 99.9% of all the artists, musicians or otherwise. Peace out. | |
| Maybeck Recital Hall Series: Hal Galper | |
| Gillie -- 10/26/2005, 10:01:33 -- #20333 | |
| Regarding working in education, there appears to be an encouraging interest from students to learn music technology. Jut a thought for an approach to teaching a subject that is/might provide profitable employment in the future whilst furthering your main interest in life. What do others think about this? | |
| Scot -- 11/21/2005, 05:23:05 -- #21293 | |
| Jenny: the recipe for success in life is following your dream and doing what you love. If you really really enjoy jazz piano, then you'll find that the opportunities you choose to embrace will have something to do with music. Getting into the mindset, "...I need to figure out what to do with my life..." isn't really going to help you succeed because you can start narrowing your field of vision by only looking towards opportunities that are within the narrow scope of "what you need to be doing". Keep your mind and eyes open to every single opportunity that comes your way, no matter what it is, and when one comes along, THEN it's time to look at it and see if it fits into the path that your life is taking, not the path that you think your life is supposed to be taking. That's the problem so many people have and one of the reasons so many people are miserable. They have narrowed their options to what they "should be doing" for so long that even when great things opportunities come up, these people miss out on even noticing them. So just be free, do what you love and follow your heart because if you do that, the other things will fall into place. Cautionary note: this will happen IF you take care of business. Do what you gotta to do succeed in any opportunity that you choose to embark on. If you slack off, you'll never succeed. Like anything else, focusing on the task at hand and spending the time and concentration it takes to get it done as best as you can is the way to have great results. | |
| Barry -- 11/26/2005, 12:47:18 -- #21500 | |
| Excellent post Scot. | |
| vinnyplaysjazz -- 02/28/2007, 11:24:07 -- #33378 | |
| Advice for getting piano gigs in nightlcubs/bars/etc? | |
| Hello all, im a young pianist (16) and have been playing piano for 6 years now in that time getting grade 8 Classical and grade 5 Jazz... I'd love to earn some extra money on the side (and gain piano playing experience) by playing in bars/nightlcubs or what have you. I can improvise fairly profficently and can play quite a few standards but wondered what tips people would have? How should i put myself forward for a job? How big of a repetoire should i have learnt, should it be memorised? What do people like to hear? Any help on these topics would be very much appreciated! Thanks - vinny | |
| lepxe -- 05/15/2007, 05:00:16 -- #35067 | |
| music should not be an industry! | |
| damn this music industry! music is a force that flows through everyone and unites everyone, a pox upon anyone who would dilute this pure spirit into a 4 minuit "product" fronted by a cosmeticall altered, vocally uninspired moron who receives celebrity status for their apperance alone. I'm continually assalted by the regimented marching beat of the electric drum kit, everything in sync (n-sync and belive me it does stink), everything in tune (appart from the singing). music is not somthing that comes out of a factory! it is not and never shall be an industry! Has anyone else noticed how many great musicians lose it when they become famous? lose their talent, lose their edge, lose their desire to progress what they do? I want to engage with music in a way more involved than uncomfortably swaying to the music and obeidiantly clapping at the end! The man playing the sax is no more a part of the music the the man dancing in the audience, music is all about being part of shared experiance, comunicating without words! | |
| Scot -- 05/17/2007, 09:11:37 -- #35110 | |
| You're right, but when a musician gets rich he/she forgets all of that and says, "You're going to pay me $50,000 to stand there with a microphone and sing standards from the 70's? Raindrops et al? Where do I sign??" I doubt that many musicians who are struggling to make a living, provide for their families, etc, would turn down a lucrative offer even if it meant "selling out". So I agree with you, but the world and society make it difficult to walk the walk you are describing. However, you are passionate about this, and all it takes is one person to turn these kinds of ideas into practiced ways of life. The question is do you want to devote yourself to turning music back into art, or do you want to devote yourself to playing music? | |
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