| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Hello guys, I'm a classically trained pianist and I really need | |
| ProAce -- 01/05/2005, 21:53:51 -- #10145 | |
| I love jazz piano, I simply adore it. I have a musical ear for jazz, and I listen to it all the time. I really want to be able to sit down and play jazz piano. However, I'm classically trained in the full sense of the word. I only read notes..very well I might add. My classical piano abilities are great and I play alot of Chopin. However I want to learn jazz piano because, I admit, I love playing it more than classical piano. The problem is that I can only play jazz piano if it's written down in musical notation because I've been taught only classical music and how to read it and interpret the notes that are written. I can interpret basic chords, but it goes as far as that. I know that, for example, an F7 chord is an F chord with the 7th lowered, a minor chord is the third of the chord lowered a half step, etc. You know, the basics. I know all my major scales and I can play a Bb blues scale. That's really about it when it comes to jazz. I can't really do jazz interpretations of chords, but I can read classical and jazz musical notation very well. What tips would you give a fully classical musician such as myself for starting jazz piano. Where should I start? Will being a classically trained musician hinder my jazz piano abilities? How can I break out of the habit of relying only on written notes? Thanks in advance. | |
| ProAce -- 01/05/2005, 21:56:29 -- #10146 | |
| Sorry, I meant to say I really need advice. Heh, quite embarrassing to make such a simple mistake on my first post. | |
| albetan -- 01/05/2005, 22:03:14 -- #10147 | |
| Hi Proace: I invite you to download files "Beginning..." at Albetan's Area. | |
| jbl81 -- 01/05/2005, 23:42:28 -- #10151 | |
| ProAce, I came from the same background you did. I'm not even a passable jazzer yet, but I have a bassist friend and we have fun jamming together, improvizing over some simple tunes. I think classical background does help you some, but it also has some drawbacks. The ways it might help you: you probably have a decent understanding of chords (at least the basics), and you also ought to be able to read single-note right hand lines, no problem. That being the case, why not go grab some transcriptions and play through them. I find that's a good start. It'll help your left hand get used to interpretting chord symbols quickly, and at the same time, it might build some muscle memory for licks in the right hand. The key point here is this: you're not playing this just to be able to play it of the page. Eventually you want to take the music away. Memorize it, get the feel of it. If you find a particular lick you like in it, extract that and memorize it in all keys. Try using one lick over the whole tone (transposing it to each chord). Obviously that doesn't give a roadmap very far into the future, but I found that to be a good thing to do to transition from classical to jazz. You take what you're good at (chord theory, reading notes) and use it to build what you don't have (vocabulary, abilty to intrepret chords on the fly, etc). Have fun =) | |
| paulF99 -- 01/06/2005, 06:45:17 -- #10157 | |
| ProAce, I am in a similar situation to you, albeit a self-taught music-reader, but a bit further down the line, so you may find my experiences useful. I taught myself to read music around the age of 8 and stuck with that for the next 40 years, playing the piano mainly for my own amusement and occasionally at parties etc. So my musical ability was a sort of eyes->brain->fingers automaton. Them, about 18 months ago I was asked to join a band by someone who heard me playing at a Christmas party. Suddenly, I was thrown in at the deep end because: 1) I was playing with other people for the first time 2) There is no sheet music for some of the stuff we were playing, all I had was chords 3) When it came to solos, I hadn't the faintest clue what to play All in all, a pretty daunting experience. Luckily, I found some MIDI keyboard parts for some of our songs on the internet, so that gave me a head start for those songs, but I quickly realised I was going to have to forget most of what I knew and re-approach music-making from a different direction. So here's what I did: 1) I tried memorising some music. Although I had played some sheet music scores 1000's of times, I could never play any of them from memory, although when I was playing them I didn't really need to look at the music. So, I figured, my brain had actually remembered the music, but it needed a visual stimulus to recall the notes. So I tried to short-circuit that and drag it straight from memory. The first tune (a nice arrangement of Misty) took me weeks and weeks to memorise, but I got there in the end. Now I could play Misty and have the luxury of watching my hands and fingers for the first time, since I didn't have to look at the sheet music. Subsequent songs became much easier to remember. 2) BUT, I then found that memorising songs is much like reading sheet music - you've just cut out the eye->brain bit. There is no scope for changing what you play and you are stuck with whatever you have memorised. You are, in effect, acting as a tape-recorder. So, next I decided to approach the whole thing from a different direction and study some of the theory. 3) I learned about chords, scales, voicings etc using this marvellous web-site and others, bought myself a few Real Books, and tried to play by reading the melody line from the music and making up the chords and accompaniment from the chord symbols. Suddenly, things started to click into place. Furthermore, I was being creative for the first time. It was up to me how the thing came out. 4) Understanding the chord/scale relationships has allowed me to start playing solos with confidence (>90% notes sound Ok ;-)) 5) It's very important to play with other people. The unspoken inter-communication and dynamics of playing in a band were a revelation for me. I did a few other things too: 1) listened to as much live music as possible, around 2-3 times a week, mostly jazz, and mostly sitting behind the keyboard player if possible, but also other genres, and 2) listened to my entire CD collection again with fresh ears, really trying to pick out what was going on and 3) trying to play along with music on CD and radio. It's slow going, but I have made significant progress in the last year, and the best bit is it's so exciting to experience music from a different angle. I really can't wait to sit down an play as often as I can nowadays. Good luck, Paul | |
| Sweep88 -- 01/06/2005, 23:39:16 -- #10168 | |
| Hey Pro.... Butch Thompson is considered to be the top udixieland/u pianist on the planet. He also was clasically trained, and started just as you. Go to any search engine, and type in his name. When you download a tune that you like, find the progression from a million fake books. Paul (from thread above) gave great advice. Once you learn the basic chord progression of ANY tune, the rest will come naturally for you. Also..check out this site.... www.NewOrleansJazzPiano.com Download any of John's tunes, and same thing...get the chords and go from there. Drop a post if I can help...the ultimate sky is the limit for you, my friend. | |
| Sweep88 -- 01/06/2005, 23:44:06 -- #10170 | |
| Hey Pro.... Butch Thompson is considered to be the top dixieland pianist on the planet. He also was clasically trained, and started just as you. Go to any search engine, and type in his name. When you download a tune that you like, find the progression from a million fake books. Paul (from thread above) gave great advice. Once you learn the basic chord progression of ANY tune, the rest will come naturally for you. Also..check out this site.... www.NewOrleansJazzPiano.com Download any of John's tunes, and same thing...get the chords and go from there. Drop a post if I can help...the ultimate sky is the limit for you, my friend. | |
| Scot -- 01/06/2005, 23:45:16 -- #10171 | |
| Being classical trained is always a plus when it comes to jazz piano as long as you can make that clean break from the sheet music. So how do you do it? 1. Transcribe: listen to the jazz piano music you love and learn to play it from the record. Learn to sing it first, then learn to play it. Then if you want write it down. The biggest hurdle for classical to jazz musicians is to start relying on their ears instead of their eyes, so doing some transcribing which is probably the most difficult form of ear training their is will do wonders for you. Start practicing scales and other exercises with your eyes closed. Get a "feel" for the piano rather than a "picture" of the piano. I play most of the time with my eyes closed unless of course I need to read the chart or communicate with the band. 2. Get that book by Mark Levine, "The Jazz Piano Book". The reason is that this book contains logical thought about what makes jazz piano sound jazzy. It will help if you have a good handle of music theory. 3. Get a good handle on music theory :) Make sure you know what first year university music theory teaches. When I took a summer intensive course in university level music theory my junior year in highschool, it changed my musical life. 4. Play, play, and play some more. Get a Jamey Abersold record (the blues, getting it together, 2-5-1s, etc) and play along with it. It helps you get a "feel" for the music which is one of the most difficult things for classical players. Good luck- Scot | |
| ProAce -- 01/07/2005, 08:08:50 -- #10183 | |
| Thanks alot guys Sweep, I've check out some of Butch Thompsons stuff..simply amazing. Hard to believe he was classically trained, but it does shine a light one me and give me hope. Thank you very much. Scot, Thank you for the insight, that really did help. Do you know where I can find "The Jazz Piano Book"? But I listen to enough jazz to know how it's supposed to sound like. I just can't sit down and play it. I'll try playing with my eyes closed and getting a "feel" for the piano like you said. But now I'm confident that I can actually learn jazz piano despite my classical background. Thanks again. | |
| 7 -- 01/07/2005, 13:14:45 -- #10186 | |
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