LearnJazzPiano.com archives: which scale is this?

pringe -- 01/17/2005, 08:12:26 -- #10468

I was rehearsing last night, and the guitarist wanted to know what a Dim WT was - so (on C): C, Db, D#, E, F#, G#, A# right? but the sax player said that he would play: Db, D#, E, F#, G, A, B (note the lack of root) now from Aebersold's scale syllabus' and Levine'b book my one is the correct for a Dim WT, and I can see how some of the sax player's notes would work (b9, #9, #11) but no root? and a major 7th? he says the way he works it out would be to play the scale a semitone higher than the chord he needed it for. e.g. I guess he would be playing this scale thinking "C# [something]" for a C7#9. Looks like a Whole-Half Dim scale, minus the Bb? Any ideas?

johnq -- 01/17/2005, 08:29:19 -- #10469

Looks like some wire crossed to me. The scale the sax player said that he would play seems to be a Db Dim WT scale which would cound cool on a Db altered chord but not so good on a C altered chord. I wonder if he's getting confused between the usage of diminished scales where you have to make an adjustment. Using the name Diminished WT is good for describing how to form the scale i.e. a bit of diminished followed by some whole tone but can cause confusion. I tend to use the name altered scale but there's loads of possinle name.

savage -- 01/17/2005, 08:36:09 -- #10470

The sax players scale is an E melodic minor scale and is not something you normally would play over a C7. It does work for an A7#11, F#7susb9 and D#7alt though. Since C, D#, F# and A form a diminished chord he could be thinking in diminished relationships (e.g. anything that works on an A7 would also work on a chord a minor third or a tritone away). savage

johnq -- 01/17/2005, 09:36:26 -- #10475

You're right it's E melodic minor so would be a D# dim WT . Tried to rush an answer without properly checking!

albetan -- 01/17/2005, 10:02:10 -- #10477

Hi Pringe: In file "altered seventh chords" you will find "the altered seventh scale". Please go to search engine (upwards) and write "altered seventh", selecting "files". Good luck.

pringe -- 01/17/2005, 10:27:21 -- #10479

thanks albetan - however I understand the altered scale, and was just querying the sax player's approach to playing over this particular chord. I have found what he has been playing - the locrian #2, or a half-diminished scale. (WH, with  some wholetones at the end). Thanks for the replies

Dr. Whack -- 01/17/2005, 13:31:32 -- #10482

I think they're both chromatic - with a few notes left out:) ~sorry - just trying to keep things light:)

Jazz+ -- 01/18/2005, 11:35:43 -- #10498

"he says the way he works it out would be to play the scale a semitone higher than the chord he needed it for" For C7alt that would be a C# melodic minor scale. If he was playing an Eb alto sax then C# melodic minor would be E melodic minor in HIS key, not concert key.

johnq -- 01/18/2005, 12:23:21 -- #10499

An Eb alto needs to transpose up a major 6th so in HIS key C7alt would be A7alt (A#(Bb) melodic minor) but if he was playing C7alt then concert instruments would be playing Eb alt (E melodic minor).

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