LearnJazzPiano.com archives: If you had two years...

signal11 -- 01/18/2005, 02:27:03 -- #10489

So, here's an interesting situation I thought I'd throw out there... For the past couple of years, I've been working pretty hard to learn jazz piano.  Went to an Aebersold camp, been taking some classes and a lot of private lessons.  I'm even playing in a pretty serious band that has started to land some jazz club gigs (which are blast).   Needless to say, I'm hooked big time on the whole thing.   Of course, there are still about a million things I need to work on ;-). Anyways, I found out about a month ago that I'm going to lose my respectable day job that I've held for the past 7 years---not such a bad situation as I had grown dissatisfied with it anyways.   However, rather than getting another job, I'm now thinking about taking a two-year sabbatical where I do nothing but play jazz piano and generally mess around doing nothing "important."  I know it's not the socially responsible thing to do and I'm by no means a "professional-level" player, but what the hell, you only live once!   Besides, I've managed to save a bit over the years and can afford to buy myself the time as long as I live modestly and don't go completely off the deep end with things.   So here's  the question:  If you had two years to take your jazz piano playing to the highest level possible and there were *no* restrictions whatsoever  (money, location, time, family, etc.), what would you do with the time? I've been thinking  of all sorts of possibilities here.  For instance, I'd probably stay in my current city (Chicago), but try to get involved with some seriously intense private lessons.  You know, the kind of thing where you're doing highly focused piano  work for 4-5 hours a day (maybe more).  Or perhaps find a classical teacher to focus on some serious technique for awhile.  Maybe take some lessons on arranging and composition.  Of course, there's gigging with the band and learning new  tunes.  I've even wondered how hard it would be to put a trio together in order to try and get gigs at a resort of some kind (ski area, cruise ship, whatever).  Basically, all options are on the table.   I don't really have any preconceived ideas about where all of this work would take me or whether I would want to become a professional musician in the end.  I mostly just want to do it for the sake of doing it and because it's fun (if that makes any sense). Anyways, I'm curious to know what other people would do given the time. Has anyone out there done anything similarly "reckless" and have advice to offer? ;-)    Just wondering....     Cheers, - D

Mike -- 01/18/2005, 07:28:51 -- #10490

studying privatly with the best of the best is what I would do.  I would not study with a classical teacher if I was interested in Jazz. That makes no sense at all.

Barry_UK -- 01/18/2005, 08:25:14 -- #10491

I say go for it.  You don't want any regrets.  For what it's worth, and although not a professional, my advice would be to (a) Decide EXACTLY what you want to do.  Have a definite goal or goals.  Have your own agenda.  You'll stay much more focussed that way.  (b) Do lots of research.  Who knows?  You may even be able to make a living, but you don't want any surprises.  (c) I'd limit the amount of practising to whatever you're comfortable with.  That way you stay hungry and avoid premature burnout! Pace yourself.  I've noticed that whenever I have even just a few days of nothing but intense shedding, it begins to take its toll (d) Have an absolute blast!   Good luck mate.  And please keep us informed how you're doing.  Your experiences will be invaluable to many.

signal11 -- 01/18/2005, 09:00:54 -- #10492

Mike, My thinking on the classical teacher was to do that in addition to working with a jazz teacher for awhile.   The only reason I've thought about that is simply because I was a late starter on piano and have never had any kind of "traditional" training on the instrument (well, other than some piano lessons when I was 8, but that doesn't count as I can't remember any of it).   I have spent a considerable amount of time working on classical technique though (Hannon, Dohnanyi, Bach Inventions, etc.).   It might be interesting to hook up with a classical teacher for 6 months or so to see what they have to say about all of this.   It might help me with things like touch, dynamics, tone, etc.   Sort of a different angle than the stuff I work on in jazz lessons. As for burnout, I already tend to play about 3-4 hours a day so the goal is merely to extend this a bit by ditching the day job and really focusing on music awhile.  Of course, this may be the reason why my job ditched me, but that's a different matter. LOL! -- D

marksdg -- 01/18/2005, 09:02:47 -- #10493

It sounds like you are already playing for money, which is the definition of a professional player, even if it isn't full time. My advice, coming from a compolete lack of professional experience, is to work on the things that will sustain you in the long run in a professional career.  Work on what you want to be doing.  If you only want to gig, then do as much gigging as possible.  If you want to teach some private lessons, go ahead (you are probably good enough to teach at least beginners). If your goal is to get monster technique, then work on that, but consider whether this is really your highest goal.  As has been said here before, what really distinguishes the true professionals from those who are struggling isn't neccessarily their technique.  Things like connections, comraderie with the band, stage presense, understanding the business side of music, and having fun with your music are the things that may really be able to make this change work. If I suddenly had no obligations to family, I would dump everything and try make a jazz career work.  Doing what you are talking about is only not socially responsible if you are neglecting obligations or are mooching off people when you have  a choice not to.  I think you will know after a year whether this is for you.

alhaynes -- 01/18/2005, 09:38:44 -- #10494

As a fellow amateur, I find your opportunity fascinating ! Maybe I can get fired - no, I own the company :(  Do let us know how its going ! Al

marksdg -- 01/18/2005, 10:01:59 -- #10497

alhaynes, You could always go out of business.  If you practice enough, that might just happen anyway.

Kai -- 01/18/2005, 14:35:32 -- #10504

I agree with Barry that you should decide what you want to do and go for it, and stay focussed. Re the classical teacher thing, I think it depends on the teachers that are available in your area.  In my area there are no suitable jazz teachers available and I have relied on advice from this site and lots of practice. However, I have just started three months of lessons with a classical teacher who teaches jazz. Only done a few weeks but it's really helping with technique.  One thing she suggested, for example, is that I practice arpeggios, dominant sevenths and diminished chords, as chord shapes and with different rhythms. I don't think that a classical teacher usually makes this sort of suggestion. I'll let you all know  how I fare later. What a lucky guy you are and good luck. Kai

Scot -- 01/18/2005, 15:45:04 -- #10506

There's no point in taking classical lessons along with jazz unless you love playing classical music.  By studying transcriptions of the masters you can gain the same technique that classical will give you. As far as learning more about music interpretation, jazz will give you more in that area because not only do you have to interpret it right, you have to figure out what notes to play instead of reading them on the score. If I were in your shoes and had two years to study with whoever I wanted, I would take a few lessons from Keith Jarret, from Monty Alexander, from Barry Harris, Kenny Werner, Kenny Barron, George Cables, etc... You will get SO much out taking lessons from a multitude of great players rather than just one teacher. In fact, I sort of do that on a regular b asis anyway. When someone comes into Seattle that has my respect as a jazz pianist, I will often do whatever it takes to have a session with them.  Sometimes it comes down to the oldest  method in the book:  "Hi, I play jazz piano professionally. Do you have some time to sit down with me for a jazz piano session?"  "Man, I'm so busy on this trip I just don't think I'll be able to fit it in..."  "Ok, how  about $100 for an hour of your time?" I've never had anyone turn that down before.

signal11 -- 01/18/2005, 16:05:11 -- #10507

Hmmm.  That's a pretty interesting idea.   We definitely get a lot of major players passing through town here, but I've never had enough nerve to go ask any of them for a lesson. If you don't mind my asking, what do you usually end up doing in one of these sessions?  Where do you go to meet?  Is the session mostly just an open Q&A discussion?    Just a little curious because it seems quite different than a normal lesson.

Scot -- 01/18/2005, 17:43:24 -- #10509

What is a "normal" jazz lesson?  Jazz lessons aren't meant to teach you how to play the piano, jazz lessons are there to expand your awareness of what you are playing and helping you see more options. Sometimes that means learning more theory, learning how to voice harmonies, or just expanding an arrangement of a tune. Basically I will sit down with someone, such as Bill Mays who I had a chance to have a session with last summer at the Centrum jazz camp, and I'll play a tune as if I'm performing it solo. Then Bill would say, "Ok, but it sounds like you're playing careful, or trying to please me. Try again but play it the way you want to play it."  So then I play it again.  Then we start getting into  things. "Try a minor 6 here, or try a drop 2 here, or try blah blah". Then usually the piano master you are with will play the tune (and of course your minidisc or tape recorder is on, right?) wherein I'll ask questions about things. Usually we'll go through two tunes.  I will ask questions about things, like how to harmonize a certain melodic progression, or something. People who are still learning how to play the piano, who still have a lot of technique issues and stuff, should probably just take classical lessons until they have some chops.  After that, taking lessons from as many different pros as possible is the way to go.

nihonjin -- 01/19/2005, 05:12:13 -- #10518

First of all jazz is a liftime commitment and donīt get frustrated if you can't accomplish everything you want in 2 years. Furthermore no matter how hard you practise real growth will a long time take time to manifest itself and you will maybe not feel the change right away. I remember my time at Berklee practising many many hours a day but for me it took like 2-3 years after I graduated before I really could feel that my level of playing had gone up. About what to practise: Scott'  advise that you should take lessons from the greats is maybe helpfull but I belive that everybody deep down know what the have to practise. You probably already have particulary players that you like who do stuff you want to do. Learn it by transcribing it.As Mark Levine puts it "your best teachers are your record colection"

signal11 -- 01/19/2005, 07:33:47 -- #10519

Furthermore no matter how hard you practise real growth will a long time take time to manifest itself and you will maybe not feel the change right away. I think this observation is right on target.   I don't have any expectations for what my playing will be at the end of two years. Actually, it's probably better not to think about that since I wouldn't want to be frustrated ;-).  Instead, I sort of see the time as an unique opportunity to plant a lot of seeds.   Two years is probably enough time for the seeds to start growing, but the real payoff will come later on.

Gordon -- 01/19/2005, 12:57:48 -- #10531

If your technique is not perfect, then be very careful to avoid injury such as carpal tunnel etc.

Kai -- 01/19/2005, 13:47:27 -- #10533

I forgot to mention that my three months with a classical teacher is purely on technique!  Kai

Mike -- 01/20/2005, 03:13:35 -- #10550

I developed my tone completly with a Jazz teacher.  All of the better attributes of my technique I have also learned from my Jazz teachers.  From my Classical teachers I learned mostly how to read and how to understand European music and the historic European Masters.  Personally I now deem a significant portion of the technique that I learned from Classical teachers as incorrect. To me the only real reason to study with a Classical teacher unless you happen to know one is simply special is for guidance in choosing repoitoire out of the vast amount of choices.  Deciding what pieces to learn is a task that begs for professional help if you are going to spend a lot of time on classical

swingbolder -- 01/20/2005, 20:06:00 -- #10567

I would go ahead with your plan if I were you. Esp. since you have some money saved. You're right you only live once and when the music is in you, it's hard to ignore. You can always go back to your day gig should you find the life of a full-time musician not to your liking. Plus there are also wedding gigs and events like that to earn extra $$, if you're open to it, even though you usually have to play pop stuff on those types of gigs. Maybe you can find a teacher who does classical and jazz. My teacher studied classical as a child then moved on to play jazz professionally, including recording and touring. We work on technique (exercises and classical repertoire) and we play jazz tunes and work on improvisation. She also helps me develop my own compositions.

paddyallen -- 01/21/2005, 04:50:26 -- #10568

I agree with the time factor being very low at 2 years. It is unwise to be over confident and two years would not be long, as most jazz pianists have taken far longer to reach a full professional level in my opinion. That includes the so called  'overnight star status' success people too. Have you anyone you may like to emulate as there are a large amount of different styles to study. I hope you feel the urge to form your own style or signature which would be a sure success formula. I admire your enthusiasm greatly and wish you all the best. Alan

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