Scot Ranney's LearnJazzPiano.com archive: Wanting to learn ..best advice ..

LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Wanting to learn ..best advice ..
jazzwanabee -- 03/12/2005, 11:53:25 -- #11878
Hello good people, I want to learn jazz piano and be a good pianist in general. Learning to play is by far the most frustrating experience I have ever had. It is truly an exercise in patience and control. Yet it is also enjoyable when you actually learn to play something that does not make you want to puke. Anyway any advice on how I should practise? Currently I practice for 45 minutes every day before I go to work and for at least 2 hours on saturdays. I start of my doing some quick Hanon exercises as a warm up. Right now I am using "The Piano Handbook" as a guide, so I practice some of the stuff in there. I am learning to play on time and to watch my fingering and overall tone. I can read music decently well now but not read and play at the same time. I guess I'm just looking for some overall beginner advice and a word of encouragement. Thanks to all.
Dr. Whack -- 03/12/2005, 12:06:39 -- #11880
Sounds like you're on the right track! Keep going. Learning to play the piano is a never ending life-long journey, whether you're playing jazz or whatever. There's always someone better than you and always someone worse, and others that are just different...that's what makes the world go around. You really should look into getting a good teacher so as not to develop bad habits, and to learn some good ones. The amount of practicing you're doing is very nice for a hobbyist. Don't compare yourself to pros who live and breathe it and practice and play all day and night (unless you want to be one:) A teacher might be able to help you get the most out your practice sessions... just my thoughts - (a retired pro who now teaches)
albetan -- 03/12/2005, 16:05:20 -- #11882
Hi Jazzwanabee: Welcome to LearnJazzPiano. You are in the right way here for learning jazz piano. I invite you to Albetan's Area in personal rooms. Click on "w" near my name and you will find an order to study all tips for learning jazz piano by yourself. In Techniques and exercises you will find good stuff for practices. Good luck.
·Jesus -- 03/14/2005, 09:20:39 -- #11907
Hi, jazzwanabee I began to learn on my own last september, and I can tell you I’m enjoying it a big deal. I have a lot to learn, almost the whole of it, but the little I’ve learnt till today is a lot too, considering I knew nothing at all.I’ve got a lot of stuff from the internet, such as exercises and easy sheets to practise and play. I’ve got some things from public libraries, too. I’m 39 years old. I think I’m now in my first course, and all I have to do is go on. In two or three years I’d like to be able to play with some friends just for the pleasure of it. And so on. Just to enjoy it. So, keep going, jazzwanabee. And, as I’ve read in some place, play more than practise. Maybe you could combine strict with simplified sheets of songs or pieces you like, and I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.
bubbawny -- 03/16/2005, 19:08:26 -- #11993
hey jlopez! I'm 39 about to hit the bit 40! man! life is FLYIN! jazzwannabee, i'm also a jazzwannabee. i taught myself to sheet read pop music. BFD. It doesn't help squat in learning how to play jazz. So i took a year of Jazz piano lesson's and i come to this board often. i'm a putterer. I play for myself. I'm still hacking away. you are doing better than I am, practice wise. My jazz piano instructor (college professor) gave up on me because i wasn't one of his 19 year old students who had all the time in the world to practice. i could only do about 1/2 hour or hour per night. basically, i wasn't learning fast enough for him, so he kindly let me go. now i'm on my own. unguided. i'm not much help to you other than someone out there in the world who shares your interest and passion about learning how to play jazz piano. i wish i had someone SHOWING me how to do this stuff. My pile of jazz theory books and sheet music books could fill a library. problem is that almost all of them just seem so scientific. I've a buddy of mine who plays blues piano. his friends taught him. can't sheet read. couldn't tell you what locrian is. BUt man can he play! i just ran into him this weekend at guitar center. haven't seen him in 10 years. He started playing these jazz tunes and some ray charles music. It was awesome. He still can't read, doesn't know theory. but his music buddies have shown him so much. it's amazing. he was showing me a few things before we parted. I learned more from him in 20 minutes than i learned from all my books and thejazz professor. it reminds me of trying to teach myself french from a book or a casette. i wanted it so bad. but it just wasn't coming. so i got tutored by a french speaker. man...within a couple of days i learned more practical language than YEARS of listening to those CDs and reading the How-To books. the moral of my story: It seems like we could both stand to find a mentor to help us learn rather than try self-guided. i wish i had a jazz buddy to SHOW me rather than read the Jazz Piano Handbook. I mean zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....... i'm a pretty bright guy. but if so many of these players learned by from others, it seems so much smarter...
Mike -- 03/17/2005, 02:19:11 -- #11996
Hi Jazzwanabee Welcome to learnjazzpiano. You are in the wrong place for learning Jazz Piano, you should be with a qualified private instructor. Its not like there is a mathematical formula for practicing that all of a sudden makes you good. It does not really matter how long you practice for or even what you practice. Reading what you wrote it does not sound to me like you are having enough fun. The more fun you have the more you will practice and the less you will be able to keep track of how long you are practicing for. If you really know how long you practice for chances are there is a problem. If you are doing it right ... there is just never enough time.... just like there is never enough money, never enough pussy. just my thoughts ( a retarded pro who spends most of his time at the beach)
Barry_UK -- 03/17/2005, 08:00:08 -- #11998
Mike, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your posts. Man, you gotta write a book - preferably on jazz and/or piano, but it really doesn't matter. I'm serious. You could do it at the beach, but I don't care - Just do it!
beanabus -- 03/17/2005, 08:19:00 -- #12002
"a qualified private instructor" - Mike makes jazz pinao sound dangerous - like skydiving! Don;t attmept this at home kids... Certainly, you need a secure technique to play jazz. Mind you, I see a lot of pianists out their with terrible technique who play great (and some who fool you into thinking they can't play technically, and then suddenly produce some jaw dropping stuff!) I think good classical technique is something many jazz pianists call on if they need it. As far as improvisation goes: well I don't think it has to be complicated - just requires lots and lots of experience at improvising. 1) Get good at playing what you hear in your head (test yourself) 2) Go listen to lots of jazz. Immerse youself in the music. 3) Jam and jam and jam 4) Don't be afriad of doing something wrong. Embrace the potential chaos and the heat of the moment. I don't think theory is useful for improvisation per se - it is useful for 'concepts' that could lead to improvised lines or sounds you might not have considered before, or unpeeling dificult tunes that you can't play just by ear, or composing new ones. The actual process of improvisation is more intuitive.
Dr. Whack -- 03/17/2005, 08:29:09 -- #12003
I'd pay a lot of money for an autographed copy of Mike's book!
signal11 -- 03/17/2005, 09:22:03 -- #12004
I'd like to add one thing to what beanabus said... 5.) Don't be afraid to take personal risks and don't worry about what others think. When I started playing piano (at age 34), all I really knew is that I wanted to play in a band. I didn't have the slightest idea how in the hell I was going to accomplish that, so I simply took advantage of every opportunity that presented itself. For instance, my first piano teacher wanted me to play in a recital---so I did that even though I was terrified. Also, against any kind of rational thought, I signed up for the Aebersold jazz camp knowing full well that I had never played piano in a group. At some point before the camp, my teacher suggested I contact this local "jazz school" to find out if they had any groups I could join. I didn't know what to make of that (I mean, who the hell was I to just be calling a jazz school when I've only played piano for 8 months?). At some point I made the call, and the guy on the other ended just paused and said "can you be down here for rehearsal tonight?" Next thing I know, I'm in a group, playing a concert in less than three weeks, wondering just what in the world I've gotten myself into! Since then, one thing has just sort of led to another and I'm now playing regularly in a band---exactly what I wanted to be doing all along. Needless to say, all of this has really propelled my playing (although I'm still taking private lessons and learning new things all of the time). Bottom line: I don't think it would have been possible if I hadn't been willing to take some risks and just dive into it.
marksdg -- 03/17/2005, 10:11:16 -- #12006
Bubbawny, If what you really admire is the guy who can't read music, but plays the blues great, then maybe you need to look into someone who considers themselves a blues player rather than a jazz player. My best recommendation to you is to really search for a good teacher. Maybe go to concerts and then ask a player afterwards if he teaches (if he says no, maybe offer him a generous amount). Maybe identify 10 different people, and then take 1 lesson from each one. Since your friend showed you great stuff in 20 minutes, you should expect the same from these teachers. Then stick with the one you liked best. Can you pay your friend to teach you?
Jazz+ -- 03/17/2005, 10:30:05 -- #12007
Sounds like a contraciction: "I don't think theory is useful for improvisation per se - it is useful for 'concepts' that could lead to improvised lines or sounds you might not have considered before."
Jazz+ -- 03/17/2005, 10:30:28 -- #12008
spelled "contradiction"
LarryC -- 03/17/2005, 13:47:46 -- #12015
Hey signal11, What was the experience like going to the Aebersold camp as someone in your 30's? Are there many over-30's and/or any mid-life crisis-ers that attend? I'm in my early 40's and have always wanted to attend one for the past 20 years, but never have. I'm not a beginner but also not one that can play over Giant Steps changes uptempo. Larry
signal11 -- 03/17/2005, 14:24:19 -- #12016
The Aebersold camp was cool---I had really good time and learned a lot of things that really helped me think about my playing. Contrary to what one might imagine, the camp is attended by a lot of adults of all ages and abilities (about 400-500 people attended and I'd say maybe 50% of them were adults). Heck, my roommate was some sort of wiseguy Air Force Major who had just come back from the middle east and felt the need to spend the whole week telling insane "mom" jokes (in addition to playing piano). If you've always wanted to go, I'd say go for it---you'd probably fit right in.
beanabus -- 03/18/2005, 08:15:35 -- #12040
Giant Steps is a doddle. Just don;t try to use the modes, whatever you do.
Mike -- 03/19/2005, 03:12:10 -- #12052
"Giant Steps is a doddle" Isnt that a song by Bob Dylan? ... that Joe Cocker covered?
jazzwanabee -- 03/23/2005, 14:43:29 -- #12159
Hey guys, Thanks for all the replies. I am still searching for a teacher, trying to get the right one. To be honest I am having more fun. I still practice in the mornings which is not always easy (fingers not so alert @ 6:30 AM). I am a dynamic learner. If I pay too much attention to the rules then I will never learn because I will focus on getting the rule perfect. Life is not perfect (thank God!). Right now I learn what I can and keep doing it over and over again. If I play to try to perfect something (technique, fingering, scales, etc) then I will miss the point. I dance salsa very well. And when people ask me how do they learn how to dance I tell them listen to the music and try to "feel" it. Sure salsa is a pretty complicated coordination of steps but to dance it you have to get beyond that. The music will give you the feeling and the timing. It sinks in. Once you have that understood then the complicated "advanced" stuff will come because somehow it will just makes sense. The steps you do have to learn, sure. But the nuances of the movements; you have to express those yourself. Anyway that is what my hope is with my jazz piano. I want to have some fun and I think if I focus on that I will be a happy camper :) cYa.
qineuf -- 03/28/2005, 16:54:27 -- #12261
Hello all, Just joined. I'm a guitarist/singer. But my first music instruction was a couple of months with my sister on piano long ago, yet I enjoy myself everytime I come across one. So I am going to procure myself a digital one with weighted keys (due to space and budget for the time being, am looking at the Casio px100, I know Casio, but it feels great and has had some great reviews). I am already in lessons on improv. with the guitar, and would like to make some inroads myself before getting hooked up with another teacher if poss. Been learning fun stuff with David Cohens blues piano dvds for beginners, and can play some already. My question is does anyone know the Warren Bernhardt "You Can Learn Jazz Piano" dvds from the same good Homespun company? Could this be an option for the next couple of months before getting in with a teacher? Your ideas, I know the need for a teacher, hence my guitar lessons, even though I play that instrument well, there's always more. But in the meantime? Thanks quineuf
marksdg -- 03/28/2005, 17:43:12 -- #12263
qinef, If the books and DVDs are working for you, then by all means keep at it. I have heard of other beginners here go to teachers and not learn anything they could really use. Keep in mind, going to a teacher does not mean you have to start regular lessons. You could pay for one lesson and just see how much you learn. You should certainly not think in terms of trying to get good before you start lessons. As I said above, there are some bad teachers, or other teachers who do not suit your style, so maybe think in terms of doing one lesson each with a few teachers, and then pick a teacher. I have had good experiences with other Homespun products, but am not familiar with "You can Learn Jazz Piano". I have tried Homespun's Dr. John CDs, which I really liked because he showed a lot of different blues, gospel and funk playing styles and the transcriptions are good, but there is very little actual instruction in them so it may not be good for a real beginner. One thing I have told other beginners is that if you are planning on just playing solo for a while, be sure choose instruction that will lead you toward that, and listen to solo piano CDs. Good luck!
mynameis -- 03/29/2005, 01:24:36 -- #12276
Does anyone know any good private teachers in Los angeles area that teach the blues or jazz piano?
qineuf -- 03/29/2005, 03:32:49 -- #12280
Thanks Marksdg, Good idea about going for one lesson to begin with and see. And also about the listening to solo piano, do you have any suggestions on any good solo jazz piano cds that I be listening to? Thanks for your insights
marksdg -- 03/29/2005, 08:52:22 -- #12285
The Maybeck series has a bunch of solo recordings with different pianists. I like Dave McKenna and Gene Harris, but there are tons of others. Listen to the 30 second sound bytes on amazon and that will give you a good feel for which artists will suit your tastes. Some pianists sound better solo than others. For example, what I have heard of Oscar Petersons solo recordings didn't appeal to me, but his group stuff is some of the best. I particularly like his album with Clark Terry (trumpet) call "Oscar Peterson Trio + 1 Clark Terry".
7 -- 03/29/2005, 12:42:12 -- #12288
mynameis, I live in the Los Angeles area. visit http://Jeffrey-Brent.com for more about me.
mynameis -- 04/01/2005, 00:02:24 -- #12362
u dont live in los angeles jeff, u live in Riverside. I need a blues teacher that teach in Los angeles. my name is Kev, but u can call me the REV Cuz i got a lot of money, but i get no head.
7 -- 04/01/2005, 03:11:57 -- #12368
In order to find a music teacher in your zipcode, go to http://www.musicstaff.com choose the radius (from 5 miles to 50 miles) and you are certain to find a suitable teacher near you. There is no shortage of Blues pianists in L.A.
7 -- 04/01/2005, 16:32:12 -- #12385
Oh, and you can find out about all the Blues jam sessions near you Los Angeles area (where you might be impressed enough with a player's style that you might approach them for lessons) by visiting: http://www.southlandblues.com The official Southland Blues Magazine web site. Includes artist profiles, CD, book, video and live reviews as well as club and festival calendars, radio listings, and columns with reporters covering the Los Angeles, San Francisco and San Diego blues scenes.
mynameis -- 04/02/2005, 15:15:13 -- #12399
Anyone know any Blues piano teacher in the INLAND EMPIRE AREA? I NEED A list of TEACHERs NOT JUST ONE
7 -- 04/02/2005, 15:43:51 -- #12404
You're welcome.
7 -- 04/02/2005, 16:10:49 -- #12405
The Inland Empire is roughly designated as being the San Bernardino-Riverside area. The zipcodes are respectively SB 92401 and RIV 92501. By using the search criteria "Piano" & "Blues" on http://musicstaff.com you have the following results listed: zipcode 92401 miles 5 10 20 blues piano teachers 8 12 27 zipcode 92501 miles 5 10 20 blues piano teachers 6 11 31 The musicstaff list is not sufficient? Then go to your local Sam Ash or Guitar Center and pick up a FREE monthly copy of the Southland Blues Magazine. In there you will also find all the Blues jams in the Inland Empire. Go to the jams and listen to the players. Then ask the one you like best for lessons. Here are the Inland Empire jams that Blues piano players show up to: Tuesdays - Downtown Supper Club - Riverside Thursdays - The Hub - Colton Thursdays - Tobacco Lounge - Riverside
7 -- 04/02/2005, 16:15:04 -- #12406
And if that doesn't satisfy you, call all the local music stores in your area and ask them if they have a Blues piano teacher at their store. Most will.
mynameis -- 04/02/2005, 19:25:50 -- #12414
Is it possible to learn Blues or Jazz piano without any basic fundamentals of piano?
mynameis -- 04/02/2005, 19:52:45 -- #12415
Im looking for a teacher that teaches conteporary piano and teaches (style and harmony). Not that classical shit.
Mike -- 04/02/2005, 21:40:14 -- #12417
Ya man, you dont need to know nothin about music to play jazz n' blues just eat a bowl a cherrio's and it all just sort a happens.
mynameis -- 04/03/2005, 00:05:58 -- #12419
What the hell is that suppose to mean. I know that you need to have some fundamentals and technique down. Every Dam Piano teacher i been to makes me play these retarted piano like Kum-ba-ya, The mexican song, ring around the rosey. I dont understand why an adult has to play this stupid shit.
Dr. Whack -- 04/03/2005, 12:39:27 -- #12423
hmmm...you don't sound like an adult:) If you really want to bypass th normal course of "piano lessons" just listen and experiment...hang out in blues clubs....hook up with the blues players...ask them questions...like...do you give lessons?
mynameis -- 04/03/2005, 15:19:37 -- #12426
Well Im a Young adult. LOL im 16. I want to play jazz as well. How does a jazz piano teacher teach you to play jazz? When i asked my teacher to teach me how to play jazz, He said, since ive only been playing for 9 months, That we need to study from the alfreds adult series reading book level 1. If we go at this pace, I will never get to play what i want because after im done with book 1, theres book 2,then book 3, 4,5,6.
Jazz+ -- 04/03/2005, 15:37:34 -- #12428
You need to work a lot harder to make up for lost time. People are always looking for some easy short cut or miracle. Their aint none, do the work. How many hours a day are you practicing?
Mike -- 04/03/2005, 17:41:59 -- #12433
What I meant was- Of course you still need to learn the fundamentals to play Jazz and Blues, at least that is if you want someone to teach you. Which you do. I know you do because you are here asking questions. If you really wanted to learn on your own you would be doing just that. The only difference with being taught here and getting private lessons is that: Here you are getting random input from many highly qualified teachers and some unqualified teachers and some who just are not teachers at all. These teachers are not hearing your progress on a regular basis and have no way of knowing what fundamentals you have covered adequately and which ones you have not. But even if we did we would still most likely want to teach you through a series of Method books before we took you out into the vast infinite world of non method book land. To be sure that we had covered all the fundamentals in an organized manner first. So that serious weaknesses in knowledge and ability didn't keep creeping up throughout your pianistic life. You just can not cover these fundamentals that are in the method books enough times. It is one of the reasons we Piano teachers teach. We know that no matter how good we get we are not too good to play Kum- Ba- Ya one more time.
Dr. Whack -- 04/03/2005, 18:25:00 -- #12435
excellent!
mynameis -- 04/03/2005, 20:43:49 -- #12438
Jazz+ I probably spend 30 minutes on the method book. The songs im practicing right now from the method books are the basic "bridal song" with chords C,F and G. Im playing basic chords right now and it is really boring. When im done practicing, I play lead sheats because theres a lot of songs on there that i like. I only know how to play the lead sheet the way it is written where i always play the root of the chord and play a 1 note melody line. I dont know how to add anything fancy or arrange because none of my teachers teach me.
Jazz+ -- 04/04/2005, 11:11:06 -- #12441
You need to practice about two hours a day to get good progress. With only 30 minutes of practice a day you will progress slowly. At this pint it's not what you practice but how you practice. Don't consider if the material is boring or not. Your goal should be to master it regardless of what it is, don't be a music critic. I strongly advise you to get Randy Halberstadt's Metaphors for the Musician, Perspectives from a Jazz Pianist, which is loaded with information on playing jazz piano. You won't find it boring, it's written almost like a personal journal. It will open your eyes.
mynameis -- 04/04/2005, 12:35:01 -- #12446
I know im still a begginer but i bought mark levines jazz piano book. You think that book might be too hard for me?
Jazz+ -- 04/04/2005, 14:20:54 -- #12450
Levine's book is great too. However it's more advanced and jumps around rather than offering a graded step by step approach. Try to master Chapters One (skip Chpt. 1's examples), Chapter Two and Three, especialy "Three Note Voicings." The rest of Levine's book almost requires that you are playing with a bass player, it's geared for combo playing with "rootles" type chords. The book I previously mentioned is more towards playing solo piano, which is what we do most of the time. You'll get get a better solo piano foundation in the Halberstadt book. Can you grab all 12 major triads and minor triads quickly without much effort of thought? Can you move them all thru their inversions? Can you grab all 12 Major 7th chords, Dominant 7th chords and Minor 7th chords? Can you play all 12 major scales? Those are pretty much a prerequisite to playing jazz piano.
Jazz+ -- 04/04/2005, 14:44:53 -- #12454
Levine's book is great too. However it's more advanced and jumps around rather than offering a graded step by step approach. Try to master Chapters One (skip Chpt. 1's examples), Chapter Two and Three, especialy "Three Note Voicings." The rest of Levine's book almost requires that you are playing with a bass player, it's geared for combo playing with "rootles" type chords. The book I previously mentioned is more towards playing solo piano, which is what we do most of the time. You'll get get a better solo piano foundation in the Halberstadt book. Can you grab all 12 major triads and minor triads quickly without much effort of thought? Can you move them all thru their inversions? Can you grab all 12 Major 7th chords, Dominant 7th chords and Minor 7th chords? Can you play all 12 major scales? Those are pretty much a prerequisite to playing jazz piano.
Jazz+ -- 04/04/2005, 14:48:44 -- #12455
For jazz piano you'll really only need to be able to read lead sheets, not the bass cleff or vertical harmonies, so you'll only be reading single note melodies in the treble cleff. You will also need to be able to read chord symbols.
mynameis -- 04/04/2005, 19:09:26 -- #12465
So mark levines book might be to hard for me? i guess what i want to do is play contemporary piano (style and harmony). I guess i have to keep looking for a teacher that can explain to me in person how to do all this stuff.
Scot -- 04/04/2005, 19:35:57 -- #12466
mynameis- if there is a musician you want to play like, then you buy the recording and learn to play what you hear. You work it out note for note, chord by chord. It might take a long time, but when you're done, you have learned what you need to play some of that music you want to play. A teacher will answer some of your questions, but remember: music is a language, it's a vocabulary. So like any vocabulary, you need to listen to it a lot before you can emulate it. That means you have to listen to the music you want to play, and then try to copy it. If it's too hard to learn, then try an easier song and learn what teh piano player is playing. It sounds like a lot of work... and it is! That's what makes it so great. You work really hard learning how to play a song from the recording, and then when you are done, you have something fantastic to show for it. Who is your favorite pianist? What is a good song to listen to so that I can hear what kind of music you want to learn how to play?
mynameis -- 04/05/2005, 00:01:38 -- #12473
Well my favorite player is the late and great ray charles, but he is a singer and he doesnt play solo. I like the solo that he does in moonlight in Vermont. That and georgia on my mind are the only songs i have of him. I also have recordings of bill evans. From him i have Tenderly and When i fall in love. I have When i fall in love lead sheet at home and i can play that in root position. But bill evans in the recordings makes crazy sounds and he hands move really fast on the keys which i cant do. I talked to a jazz teacher today and he said if i wanted to play jazz, i would have to commit to at least 2 years. Can you tell me some good jazz piano players that play solo on an album? I like ray charles because he can play blues and jazz and i wish i could play like him. Right now im am practicing Jingle bells sheet music (boring). I feel like a kid for having to play this kind of music. Sheet music doesnt give a song justice. I want to make music and put my own style, but everyone keeps telling me to keep practicing reading sheet music.
Scot -- 04/05/2005, 00:27:15 -- #12474
Yeah, put the sheet music down. Sheet music isn't for everyone. So you like that solo he does in Moonlight in Vermont? Here's your homework: copy the solo Ray Charles does in Moonlight in Vermont. Listen to a little bit, then try to play it. Keep on doing that until you can play the entire solo just like Ray does. You should be able to play along with the recording when you are finished. Let me know how it goes.
mynameis -- 04/05/2005, 00:39:08 -- #12475
put the sheet music down? My piano teacher teaches me from a method sheet music book. You know the alfreds adult series? im 16 years old and i play piano 7 months and i take classical piano for 5 months now. My teacher makes me play from sheet music. I have to practice Kum-ba-ya this week in the key of C. With lead sheets, i only know how to play chords in root position. I dont know how to do voicings or arranging lead sheets. Have you heard ray charles' Moonlight in vermont record? i've listing to it and playing it but it is hard.
mynameis -- 04/05/2005, 00:39:24 -- #12476
Scot what city or state do you live in?
signal11 -- 04/05/2005, 08:33:37 -- #12482
If you're sick of jingle bells and Kum-ba-ya, I would suggest that you go out and get a book of the Bach Two-Part Inventions and work on that! Believe me, you won't be bored and it will do wonders for your technique. Plus, they're just sort of cool to play---even if you're primarily working on jazz (even though I'm almost exclusively studying jazz piano, I still spend 15-20 minutes a day working on Inventions). For what it's worth, I started playing piano as an adult and never worked out of those method books. However, I did have a teacher and did work on some simple classical music to start (I also knew how to play a different instrument already and didn't need instruction on basic music theory so that might be a factor). Anyways, after two years of playing, I was playing in a band and making money. However, I can tell you right now that 30 minutes a day of practice isn't going to cut it. I was practicing 2-5 hours a day every day to get to that point. It was a lot of work.
Dr. Whack -- 04/05/2005, 10:35:12 -- #12485
I'm familiar with the book you're talking about. If you're wroking on Kum-ba-ya, you may find the Bach Two-Part Inventions fairly challenging, and quite possibly frustrating. On the other hand, if you can manage them, I think you will love em and get a lot out of them...but you will have to turn up the heat on your practicing:) I really think its a good idea to go through a piano lesson course book like "Alfred's Adult", but to avoid boredom, work on other things as well - like listening to Ray Charles and trying to figure out what he is playing. As a teacher it always interests me to find people who practice 30 minutes 3-5 times a week, compare themselves to professionals that have spent a lifetime of many hours a day practicng and playing, and then feel as though they are just "no good" or "have no talent". It doesn't matter if you're going to be a musician, an athlete, a real estate sales person, etc...you have to be willing to commit to many hours of very hard, but rewarding work. Very simply, you get out what you put in:)
mynameis -- 04/05/2005, 13:45:29 -- #12490
I thought it was "practice does not make perfect", "perfect practice make perfect" somethin like that. Im just tryin find out if playing jingle bells off the method book all day is smart practicing. When i am bored of playing from the method book, i either play from a lead sheet or play mark harrisons blues method book.
bubbawny -- 04/05/2005, 16:46:26 -- #12497
dood, i gave up on the Alfred books when i was trying to learn because I could not STAND michael row the boat ashore or kumbaya! give me a break! if you are forced to play tunes you can't stand, you'll probably not practice them. for me, i went a bit of the classical route with Thomson's books 1 through 4. i got some enjoyment from the classical pieces. but i'm convinced that there are jazz/blues/ragtime/swing type course materials that might keep you better motivated. i know if i see another alfred's book, i'm going to puke! Ughhh! what a LOUSY selection of tunes. i'm proud of having taught myself how to play some things. but i still suck. i definitely agree that it all boils down to practicing enough to take steps towards mastery. i think if you are interested in Jazz, learning a classical method might have some, but limited value. i remember this debate about classical pianists not being able to make the transition to jazz. there are somethings i've found in the thompsons that definitely helped. but i wish i would have gone pure jazz / blues / ragtime from the beginning. God, those alfred adult courses suck! brings back cringes just thinkin about those tunes... ;-)
jazzwanabee -- 04/05/2005, 16:52:41 -- #12498
I am just a beginner myself but I can say one thing that has helped me is RELAXATION. Not just relaxing physically but mentally, psychologicly (sp?). When I first started I would get so frustrated because I couldn't play something I would come so close to slamming my fists in the keyboard. Now when I practise I start off with the lead sheets and practise slowly with a metronome. As as example if a song's tempo is 192 I may start off learning it at 60 or 70. Making sure that I get the notes down. When I have gotten the notes down I increase the metronome in values of ten. So now I am playing at 80 or 90. If I can't get it at this speed I go back. While I am playing I pay attention to how I feel, the tension in my hands and wrists. I also pay attention to my fingering making sure I am moving through the passages in a smooth, efficient manner. Eventually I get up to tempo. Then comes the actual "feeling" of it. To me the "feeling" is the most important part. Touching someone else with what you are playing. If you can't do that then you may sound pretty but you won't get the soul of the music. That is jazz and blues. I found it's important for me personally to be able to play something, anything really. That helped my confidence and gave me the inspiration to learn new material. I usually run through 2 songs that I know either as a warm up or just to release whatever tension I may be experiencing at the moment. Have some fun and approach the music in different ways. Unfortunately I don't have a teacher yet. I'm looking for the right one. My Dad is a sax player so he gives me some advice and motivation. That definitely helps. He's been playing for almost 40 years and he still practices and has difficulties sometimes. That actually helped me to realize that it's an ongoing process and to just keep moving and try to enjoy. Sorry for the small book of a post.
Jazz+ -- 04/06/2005, 00:01:10 -- #12511
I hated teaching students with the Alfred method books, I would go crazy if I had to continue teaching with the Alfred course. The Alfred books use some awfull arrangements, that's why I use the "Accelerated Course For The Older Beginner" - Lesson Books 1 & 2 by Nancy and Randall Faber. They use modern arrangements of decent tunes that don't insult your intelligence or taste. Ask your teacher if you can swith to the "Accelerated" Faber Lesson Books I and II
Dr. Whack -- 04/06/2005, 00:14:09 -- #12513
I'll second that...I use the Faber books too. The tunes are cool, the arrangements are nice, the explanations and progession of concept development is very logical...my students seem more prepared for their lessons...
piano paul -- 04/06/2005, 08:03:46 -- #12516
Here's a very good book: Jazz Hanon, by Leo Alfassy (Amsco Publications). Nothing boring in there, it's progressive, covers a lot of styles, and is purely jazz.
MRuth -- 04/06/2005, 11:32:02 -- #12520
Mynameis I also teach beginners. I agree with Dr.Whack and Jazz+ Faber and Faber is a well developed method series. Here's a reference to supplementary material that might assist you in your learning. "Discover Blues Improvisation: An Intro to Blues Piano by Faber and Faber with Edwin McLean. Using these material may perhaps give you skills enough to get started with M. Levine's book, after you've completed them.
mynameis -- 04/06/2005, 18:14:11 -- #12541
im playing alfreds adult series level 2 right now. im playing that mexican song. I think its called la raspa. whoopi!
Dr. Whack -- 04/07/2005, 00:23:17 -- #12544
well, trying playing "Twist And Shout" or Hot Stuff" 5-10 times a week for 30 years - but then again, I got paid... I guess that makes it a little better, but not much
Mike -- 04/07/2005, 08:20:24 -- #12553
Oh yes the "Good Times" with the "Bad Girls", Thank God there was a "Last Dance".
mynameis -- 04/07/2005, 17:44:18 -- #12573
So for a beggining piano player like myself, the best way to learn a style is to learn from teacher that has lots of experience with jazz?
Paul -- 04/07/2005, 22:05:33 -- #12579
i think as a beginer you should get all the fundamentals down and keep listening to lots of jazz. Once you have the fundamentals down then you should start looking for a jazz teacher. That's just my oppinion.
mynameis -- 04/08/2005, 02:33:34 -- #12587
How long does it take to get all the fundamentals. What are the fundamentals. I have been taking traditional lessons for about 6 months now so i feel as though i have some fundamental, but i dont know when i should quit and look for a jazz teacher.
signal11 -- 04/08/2005, 08:16:17 -- #12589
You know, all of these questions about "how long does it take to do X" are fairly meaningless because this depends entirely on you, not your teacher. How much time do you spend practicing? What do you practice? What do you listen to? Well, you get the idea. As for working with a jazz teacher and fundamentals, I can speak from personal experience since it's still rather fresh in my mind. At the time I started working with a jazz teacher, I was able to play just about everything (though not at full tempo) in the first 40 Hanon exercises which included all major scales, melodic minor scales, harmonic minor scales, major and minor arppeggios, chromatic scales, and other assorted things. This sort of stuff would definitely qualify as fundamental in my book. It also helped me survive some of my early lessons where the teacher set the metronome at some insane tempo like 130 and said "ok, let me see you play some scales, hands together, 4 octaves, 16th notes... GO! Ab! E! F! F#! A minor! ... " I also knew about modes, II-V-I progressions, left hand voicings, and other basic jazz material when I started (some of which I picked up at an Aebersold jazz camp). I wouldn't say that this material was essential to starting jazz lessons, but it was useful in finding a jazz teacher. I get the impression that a lot of good jazz teachers don't want to spend their time teaching rank beginners. Knowing some things in advance was useful in getting my foot in the door and getting past the initial "I can't accept any more students" response.
Scot -- 04/08/2005, 20:06:51 -- #12627
Mynameis: you spend way too much time asking questions that aren't going to get you ANYWHERE. If you want to take lessons, go find a jazz pianist you like in your town and ask him/her if you can give them money for jazz lessons. If they say no, go to the next one and try again. You can ask a million questions on this forum and get a million answers, but until you go out and actually DO SOMETHING, you're just going to keep wondering if you can do this, or what teacher can do that, and all that jazz. It's not going to help you become a jazz pianist. Next post I see from you should be how much you enjoyed or didn't enjoy your next piano lesson from a jazz piano player, instead of more questions about, "Do I have to learn from a book or can I learn from a teacher or how do I get good?" If you want to learn from this site, then go to the lessons rooms and the personal rooms area, read the lessons, get the files, practice, and then ask us questions about the things you are practicing. Does this make sense? You aren't going to get anywhere standing still, and that's what you're doing right now, you're stalling for time, searching for an easy way to learn, asking the same old questions over and over- you're spinning your tires, so to speak. Go get a jazz lesson and let us know how it went.
Jazz+ -- 04/09/2005, 02:46:46 -- #12633
I am a jazz piano teacher and here are your basics AGAIN: Can you grab all 12 major triads and minor triads quickly without much effort of thought? Can you move them all thru their inversions? Can you grab all 12 Major 7th chords, Dominant 7th chords and Minor 7th chords? Can you play all 12 major scales? Those are pretty much a prerequisite to playing jazz piano.
mynameis -- 04/09/2005, 03:22:29 -- #12634
What state do you teach in jazz+
Dr. Whack -- 04/09/2005, 09:48:00 -- #12643
I'm a teacher too. I pretty much teach in an altered state:)
mynameis -- 04/11/2005, 02:41:17 -- #12695
who the heck is jeff brent? I dont know how much he charges per lesson.
elwapo -- 04/11/2005, 04:19:44 -- #12696
Youre a real charmer mynameis! I bet you get all the chics
Mike -- 04/11/2005, 08:57:57 -- #12698
lol.... yeh just who the heck is Jeff Brent? People want to know.
Paul -- 04/11/2005, 10:20:40 -- #12701
He's somebody I'll be looking up the next time I'm in Southern Cal. You said that he was too far for you - I think he's in Riverside. When I was your age I was driving from San Diego to LA once a week for lessons. I'm sure you know that if you want to be a player you're going to have to make all sorts of sacrafices.
Dr. Whack -- 04/11/2005, 12:57:57 -- #12704
I've seen pictures of Jeff somewhere...but he wasn't alone:)
mynameis -- 04/11/2005, 16:17:38 -- #12714
yeah i do get all the chicks. I have plenty of Girl friends u dont have to worry about me. LOL!
MRuth -- 04/11/2005, 19:05:40 -- #12719
mynameis, Do you realize that you have landed in a really wonderful place where people really want to share information and ideas. I invite you to channel some of that rebelliousness into using this site appropriately. Mr. Brent has a wealth of material right here on the LJP site. So does Scot, Albetan, Dr. Whack........and lot of others.
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