LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Comping behing people

dr1keyz -- 03/13/2005, 01:29:29 -- #11889

Even though comping has a lot of rhythmic aspects, are there any general voice leading guidelines that should be followed? Any input would be appreciated.

7 -- 03/13/2005, 03:04:22 -- #11890

This originally appeared as a post to this site: Comping The "Dues and Don'ts" of accompaniment. http://Jeff-Brent.com/Lessons/comping.html

dr1keyz -- 03/13/2005, 06:08:33 -- #11892

I dont mean the "dos and donts" I was just speaking harmonically.

7 -- 03/13/2005, 15:51:34 -- #11899

"Any input would be appreciated." OK, how about this: Find the voicing of the current chord that fits the feel and harmonic density of the piece and is neither too high nor too low. You next chord will be the voicing that is the very closest to where you are currently. When moving from one chord voicing to the nearest inversion/voicing of the next chord, the voice leading virtually takes care of itself. That's as specific as I can get without knowing the progression of the tune you're having trouble with.

dr1keyz -- 03/13/2005, 18:15:40 -- #11902

Im not having any trouble with it i was wondering if there were any rules that are "supposed" to be followed besides proper voive leading.

beanabus -- 03/14/2005, 08:24:28 -- #11906

There are no rules. however, from a non-pianist point of view, here's what I appreciate from piano comping: You are not the soloist. Don't play too much. Just a bit will do. You don't need to fill the space in too much. One well placed chord is worth a slew of apreggios. Third, seventh, and maybe an extension is all you need. The problem comes when a accompanist plays a big, extended chord that dictates a certain scale to the soloist. When I solo I don't appreciate this personally, as whether I want the 9th flat or natural is up to me! Don't need to play anymore than three or four notes a chord. Make your playing rythmically busy - that is keep it on irregular offbeats. That'll make it sound more interesting. Voice leading is not so important. You are not playing continuously, so the ears will be following the bass and the soloist, not the pianist, who will often just be 'stabbing' chords in behind. Typically, comping happens in the midrange. This may bchange if you are accompanying a particularly high or low instrument. Bass solos need only the lightest chords, in the treble register. Mark Levine overcomps on my 'Giant Steps' Abersold CD IMHO. Bill Evans is about right for my tastes. Herbie Hancock seems to be into making a conversation with the soloist. This is cool - but what he's doing is very responsive - almost telepathic. As a special case, pianists have trouble getting used to guitarists. Often they blame the guitarist for playing too much. Hoever, usually the pianist is failing to recognise the extra harmonic space he or she needs to give a second comping instrument. Alternating choruses of comping is a popular work around. However, some pinaists just seem to get it - and these are invariably the players who are used to playing with guitarists.

Kai -- 03/18/2005, 02:52:51 -- #12036

It's hard work with a guitarist in the makeup.  Choose a guitarist who : is not a prima donna; doesn't have too many 'effects' pedals to play with; has actually learned how to use said 'effects' as we pianists have to learn how to pedal appropriately; understands that he shouldn't play too loud; :)  Kai

johnq -- 03/18/2005, 06:22:31 -- #12038

Having attended various summer schools over the years I've found that some of the tutors couldn't abide guitar and piano comping together despite a good understanding by the players concerned. Other tutors would say that you can comp together. I guess it's doing it with taste that matters. One guitarist who I've known for many years from attending summer schools always said I was good to comp with. He's quite a forceful personality and so what I think he meant was that I layed out straight away when he frantically made cutting gestures across his throat :-) Seriously though it stands to reason to play less when comping with a guitar both rhythmically and harmonically taking account of what they're doing.

beanabus -- 03/18/2005, 08:12:15 -- #12039

Guitar + piano comping is considered 'bad' to recieved wisdom. However, I don't like recieved wisdom. However, some pianists and guitarists are very good at melting into an ensemble. The problem is when either the guitar player or pianist isn't  listening. But if they are not listening, they're not good jazz musicians! So perhaps one could turn this around, and set the guitar/piano comping problem as an exercise in awareness. I think the main problem is not the harmony clashing, but  rather rythmically too much activity. In latin tunes, I can mesh with the piano by playing interlocking figures (often single line patterns based on typical percussion figures.) The problem harmonically is if both musicians are playing clashing extensions. If both play thirds and sevenths, they won't clash. I find playing seconds in chords, or tritones, seems to mesh well with must related chord voicings. for example, over D7, I would play a D C interval. Doubling is the  operative word. The guitarist can work as orcehstration. One thing I like to do is add a wash of colour using harmonics and volume swells. This can make for a diferent atmosphere in conjunction wiht the piano. Qhen playing these, I try and keep  the intervals simple, and keep what I'm doing to a differnet register than the piano. Seems to work v. nicely... Finally, many pianists seem loathe to lay out and let the guitarist practice comping. One ends up having to be forceful.

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