LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Group Jazz vs. Solo Jazz

Styles -- 06/10/2005, 15:14:45 -- #14871

What do you guys think? Which do you like better? It may be subjective, but my goal is different perspectives. For me, I think each musicians capacity is reached and expanded by group jazz. There are so many dynamics to group jazz and in particular bebop or jazz with passages in improvisation. Sacrifice, teamwork. And all of this improvised as you go along. And once you get to that level in improvisation where your mind evaporates and you go to town and back, you want to bring that out in every member. It's truly like the moment after an orgasm, for me at least. Okay enough of that.

7 -- 06/11/2005, 01:16:54 -- #14913

I much prefer to play with a group and have that big sound and synergy around me. Playing solo Jazz piano bars was (for me) one of the most thankless jobs I've ever done. It pays well, and the tips are good, but the vast majority of the patrons pay little more attention to the pianist than they would to piped muzak. Here I'd spent years learning the hardest and most respected Jazz pieces ever written, and nobody gives a damn when I play them. If you've ever wondered why solo bar pianists always blend their repertoire into one big medley, it's because nobody claps when you end the song. Oh, and when somebody does pay attention to the piano player it's almost always some obnoxious drunk who you wish would leave you alone. There's an old saw that goes "Piano players that play solo, do so because they're incapable of playing with a group. And keyboard players who play with a group do so, because they're incapable of playing solo." In  my case that doesn't apply, but having been on both sides of the coin, give me a kickass drummer and a grooving bassist anytime and I'll be getting my jollies for sure (even if the money usually isn't as good).

7 -- 06/11/2005, 13:21:21 -- #14932

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antiJV -- 06/11/2005, 18:31:49 -- #14964

I gather you did that in the US, ive been tempted play in piano bars here in the UK but i dont know bow good the pay is.   Did u practice TUNES much before you played at a piano bar or did u practice on the spot, oh and did ever try soloing by yourself?!

jletourn -- 06/11/2005, 19:12:23 -- #14967

Those are great questions, antiJV -- I'll be interested to hear what 7's experiences were.  Me, I've never done a paying solo piano gig, and, while there are brilliant people who can pull out the stops, whether it's for a single record or for a  main staple of their gigs, I wouldn't be able to do it right now in a way which would satisfy me.  For one, while I do enjoy writing arrangements and have studied and can play many of the "tricks" used to fill out the sound of a lone piano without thinking about it, I'd have to change the focus of my practicing at home -- which could be worth it, if the money were right, I suppose.  But, on the other hand, it's just plain lonely out there -- I stopped studying classical music seriously and stride piano and the like as a kid because I enjoyed playing with other people, not as the center of attention.  I'd rather, I think, be playing even funk or rock and roll as part of a group, provided I got paid, than playing the  tunes I love the most, with total freedom, as a solo player.

ziggysane -- 06/11/2005, 19:55:29 -- #14968

I agree. While it's a kick playing solo and getting all the attention (or inattention), I really enjoy locking with other people and getting into a groove ,as it's a bitch to create one solo and even harder to maintain it while jamming with yourself.  Half the time I actually enjoy playing a supporting role more than I do leading.  Less pressure, more freedom, you know?

7 -- 06/11/2005, 21:44:18 -- #14971

Did u practice TUNES much before you played at a piano bar yes or did u practice on the spot, not much oh and did ever try soloing by yourself?! obviously, yes

jazz jasper -- 06/12/2005, 18:06:00 -- #15015

thanks for that i know ive mentioned it before but i find it really hard to make a decent solo from a set of changes with out making it sound like ragtime... tips??!!...

7 -- 06/12/2005, 19:49:06 -- #15018

You'll need to change your left hand style first. If you have a "Ragtime LH" going then no matter what you try to do will sound like Ragtime.

jazz jasper -- 06/13/2005, 13:15:21 -- #15055

Do you use bud powell voicings or a mixture of that or something different?

marksdg -- 06/13/2005, 17:31:47 -- #15066

jazz jasper, I do exclusively solo playing.  I am not professional, but am pretty decent, so let me give you a run-down of what I do in solo playing. First of all, the emphasis in the left hand is not voicings, but the structure of the base line.  Options for the left hand are: Ragtime stride: Low note, high chord, low note, high chord. To make it sound less like ragtime do jazzier voicings on the chord. Butterfly stride: Playing 10ths, walking slowly. Walking bass: If you are not used to a walking base, it will take you a while to get going on this, but make it interesting by adding extra notes and interesting jumps.  Only play one note at a time. Boogie/Blues bass:  A good boogie base hand, or repeating blues pattern works great, and is ideally suited for solo playing.  If you aren't used to doing boogies and less jazzy blues, maybe start if you are going into solo playing. Funk base lines: There are more of these than you can count. 'Linus and Lucy' is one option, (maybe not funk, but at least funky). Left hand voicings:  It can work to play rootless left hand comping just like you would in a combo, but usually not through the entire piece.  This can work as part of an introduction. Ballads:  Do arpeggios, held chords. Also a slow ragtime stride. There are lots of other options.  Before you even consider solo performing, you must listen to some solo CDs (the entire Maybeck series).  There are lots  of left hand styles that are different from what I have listed here, or a combination of different things. In the right hand, add more harmony in your improvisation, and occassionally fill in space with a comping chord or two.   One thing  I don't like in some solo playing is the tendency to vary the style of the left hand too much.  I like to keep the left hand very steady, only varying the style if it is a separate section (like an intro or ending).  You can switch styles from the melody to the improv section.  I don't like it when people don't keep a steady pattern that really lays down the beat in the left hand on moderate to fast tunes.

jazz jasper -- 06/13/2005, 18:03:51 -- #15070

Thanks very much!!  thats really useful that will keep me going for quite a while im sure.  do you think that its a good idea on a walking bass line to always try and play a semitone above or below a target root note on the next chord? Thanks again Jazz

marksdg -- 06/13/2005, 18:14:34 -- #15072

jazz jasper, That is a reliable method, but I wouldn't use "always".  I also like to mix in walking alternating octaves: For example, on a G blues do [High G, Low G, High F, Low F, E, E, D#,D#, D,D, C,C, B,A,G,B] for the first 4 bars.  This is just nice to add in occasionally. Also, include stop time (play note on beat one, then let right hand go solo for a bar or 2 or 3).  Even in a straight ahead jazz blues, it can be neat to break into a boogie left hand for  1 chorus. Oscar Peterson did this on "Night Train".

SolArt -- 06/17/2005, 15:30:12 -- #15242

I like best to play with guitar players, where it's not all up to me to provide a groove. Then I can have more brain-power on the solos when they come. Also it's simply less stressful. Actually I really love acoustic guitar, especially a 12-string. It takes much less money to buy a very decent guitar than a very decent piano, & they're so portable. I gripe I have about many guitar players is why don't they learn more inversions & ways to play the chord? And it goes without saying a good percussionist can really get your juices flowing.

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