| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Weighted Keys Don't Seem So Weighted Anymore! | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 06/12/2005, 21:08:17 -- #15021 | |
| Ok, heres my problem. I just spent the whole weekends at my best friends house who is also a pianist! He has a baby Grand piano and in addition to the great sound I noticed at first the keys seemed a little heavier than my keyboard a Yamaha S08 and of course the reasons are obvious why. Quite naturally, I played on it for hours at a time in sheer delight. But upon returning home today, my SO8 which is weighted felt "too light" almost like a toy. Are there things I can do to increase the weight of my yamaha keyboard? Outside of buying a piano, what options do I have? JV' | |
| Dr. Whack -- 06/12/2005, 23:39:57 -- #15025 | |
| I'm not familiar with that model keyboard, but my Roland FP8 has a three position touch control (light, normal and heavy) I always set to the heavy setting to get the most control (and it's still too light:) | |
| LarryC -- 06/13/2005, 10:25:47 -- #15044 | |
| Does that increase/decrease the actual tension in the key itself or just the attack on the sample? | |
| Dr. Whack -- 06/13/2005, 10:46:10 -- #15046 | |
| Just the touch sensitivity (velocity sensitivity). It's interesting how the touch on an acoustic piano can change from room to room - the response is everything. Once I was playing on a Baldwin grand in the lobby of the Adam's Mark hotel - the action was terrible! I was fighting the thing for an hour. Then they moved the piano and I into a smaller room for dinner and the thing played like a dream:) | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 06/13/2005, 11:43:48 -- #15048 | |
| Whack you just brought an intresting question! The acoustics of a piano from room to room can throw you off, esp if its not really in tune, Like I said before i'm sure there are people here that are much better than me with more experience.... Cuz, for me it took me 24 hrs to get used to playing on my friends grand piano. So, are you sure that it was just that you had to warm up on it? And how do you guys handle a situation like that? Cuz when your playing on a piano with bad action its going to sound terrible even when you have good technique, but the technique required to play an real grand piano is different than playing keyboards. I had to get rid of my piano about six months ago but I think I need to go buy another one. | |
| marksdg -- 06/13/2005, 12:08:03 -- #15050 | |
| When we talk about the action on the keyboard, are we talking about how the piano feels to the touch (playing it without even hearing it) or are we talking about it. One thing I notice on a really good grand is that it is easy to play soft. If you touch the keyboard slowly, it will make a soft note, whereas if you touch my upright keyboard slowly it makes no sound at all. Is this "action". | |
| Dr. Whack -- 06/13/2005, 12:20:31 -- #15052 | |
| I'm not piano tech, but the "action" is a name given to the mechanical guts of the piano. It is also used to describe who well the keyboard does what the player wants. As you mentioned, a good action is smooth no matter how hard or soft (fast or slow) you play the keys. There is nothing like the beautiful sound you get by "pulling" or "kneading" a soft tone out of a good grand . I've played some uprights in my day that did a nice job for me too. It's when they just sing everything that's in my head, when I feel like I'm in heaven:) As for jazzvirtuoso; "So, are you sure that it was just that you had to warm up on it?" I'm sure. It was a different piano in a different room. I did not have to play as hard to get a sound in the smaller room. The piano sang for me:) I would hate to have had a mic going direct to a recorder and have to hear how I must have played trying to beat the sound outa that thing! | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 06/13/2005, 12:27:30 -- #15053 | |
| Yep, when you have to bang on'em somethings wrong somwhere. Nothing sounds worse to my ears. But, I guess it's important to be able to play on diferent pianos in all kind of different situations. Some people seem better suited for it than others. JV' | |
| 7 -- 06/13/2005, 12:53:10 -- #15054 | |
| Back in the days when I played bar pianos, every bar had a different piano. Some with pedals that didn't work, some with notes that either didn't play or were completely out of tune. Sometimes a black note or two would be busted off so you had to stick your finger INSIDE to make it play. Mostly I had to learn the idiosyncracies during the first song or two. But that's when nobody was there anyway. By the time the audience showed up I had my workarounds figured out. You know that concert pianists always come in during the afternoon before the gig to play the piano for an hour or so. It's not because they don't know the piece and need a last minute practice, it's because they need to familiarize themselves with the instrument itself. Being flexible and able to adapt to playing on any piano used to be a skill that every pianist HAD TO HAVE. This is not so true anymore as most guys play on their own digital piano that they bring to the gig with them. | |
| Jazz+ -- 06/13/2005, 15:39:19 -- #15059 | |
| I have a Yamaha P250 and used to have a Yamaha P120 and P90. The word I use to describe their actions is "stiff" rather than heavy. They can start to bother my chops after 30 minutes, more than acoustic pianos do. The P actions give me great control at slow and medium tempos but I find playing fast on the P series is sort of like trying to run fast in heavy boots rather than Nikes. In my opinion, the Yamaha P series has "stiffer" actions than most of the acoustic piano I play on such as Steinways, Yamahas, Mason & Hamlins, etc. I prefer the Roland digital actions because they are less stiff and allow me to play in a more relaxed manner. | |
| SolArt -- 06/13/2005, 16:06:42 -- #15061 | |
| Count your blessings Jazzvirtuoso, now you can play really fast! Dr. Whack it must be the humidity! (How quickly did the rooms change?) Or/plus the room sound is important to one's satisfaction, & if it's not satisfactory it plays with your head. After all music is composed of SOUND, so if it's shitty the music isn't enjoyed as much by the player who is so close to the source, but further away it may sound fine. Often when I play digital pianos they sound so artificial & dry, & I may "lose courage" somewhat, but when I hear others play the same instrument they sound often GREAT, at least their tuning is super-duper. It's a brain thing, so might as well act hot even if you feel it not! Good analogy, the boots, Jazz+;I concur! | |
| onimousomnibus -- 06/13/2005, 17:32:30 -- #15067 | |
| hey jazzvirtouso... i also have an SO8. what kind of amp do you use? Its great as a practice keyboard for me but the sound starts to bother me after a while. I cant play any of the organ or synth patches on the thing cause the sound just gets to me. The action doesn't really bother me, but I want to do something about the patches. Does anybody know any cheap racks that sound good and work with the SO8? | |
| CynBad -- 06/13/2005, 17:45:03 -- #15068 | |
| Jazzvirtuoso, if you're a pianist, you should be playing a piano. Serious jazz pianists are still playing real pianos, and are often at the mercy of whatever is available at the venue. Although, many have contracts specifying exactly what type of piano must be provided for the gig. Of course, a good electronic keyboard is a good thing to have if no good piano is available -- usually at gigs which are not serious jazz gigs. | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 06/13/2005, 17:46:39 -- #15069 | |
| Yep-good advice indeed! JV' | |
| Dr. Whack -- 06/13/2005, 21:55:46 -- #15080 | |
| Yeah, I'd rather play a bad "real" piano than a great digital | |
| 7 -- 06/14/2005, 01:34:56 -- #15088 | |
| Not some of the pieces of crap I had to gig on you wouldn't. | |
| Dr. Whack -- 06/14/2005, 11:58:45 -- #15106 | |
| he he..I've played some doozies myself - in those cases I'd rather not play at all. I was playing for this huge snot-trot (debutante ball) once with an orchestra - strings, brass, woodwinds, etc...the big grand piano out front - but the thing was missing a black key somewhere in the middle of the keyboard (F#5 I think) They didn't seem to think that much of a problem -heh... Thankfully there was a rehearsal early in the day and I was able to draw enough sympathy that they swapped out for another(Adam's Mark again) Do you want tuned, or 88 keys? I went for the 88... | |
| CynBad -- 06/14/2005, 18:09:20 -- #15114 | |
| Depends on how bad the house piano really is. One of my old piano professors referred to them as PSO's (for Piano-shaped objects). Some house pianos don't even have 88 keys, because some of them are MISSING! If you have a really nice 88-key digital piano with weighted, velocity-sensitive keys, it might actually do better than a PSO. | |
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