| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: The Standard through the ages! | |
| Brotherdavies -- 07/04/2005, 04:20:24 -- #16109 | |
| Hi Like many I am begining my jazz education by learning the Great American Song book of Standards from the 1920's to circa 1960. I feel an urge to move on a bit and learn some of the songs of the Beatles, Bacharach, Stevie Wonder etc. Can anyone explain very briefly how the Standard songs have changed over the decades and in particular what happened to the Standard after 1960? What is it, say, about Bacharach that makes his songs and chord changes so different from that of Gershwin? I am really interested in understanding and playing some more modern standards but how much of a leap will it be? Cheers Bro' Davies | |
| SolArt -- 07/04/2005, 04:30:07 -- #16110 | |
| The chords are usually simpler & less of them. The "leap" is a downhill one, to a much simpler style. But you probably want to play the more modern standards in a Jazz fashion, don't you? | |
| Brotherdavies -- 07/04/2005, 05:06:32 -- #16112 | |
| That's right, I would play them with a jazzy feel and jazzy voicings so that they do not sound out of place with the older songs. Songs I have in mind are things like Penny Lane, Eleanor Rigby, Something, Long and Winding Road, The Look of Love, Sunshine of my Life. I know there are some jazzy arrangements of the above tunes available but I only need chords and melody, is there a suitable fake book that includes the more modern standards ? Thanks Bro' | |
| SolArt -- 07/04/2005, 14:56:21 -- #16131 | |
| I really like The Look of Love. I also like To Sir with Love. (it's in an old Sydney Poiter(sp?) movie) Yes there are those kinds of books, just check out a good music store & the book search on the above left. I also like jazzily written out arrangements as I can see what they're doing & alter it to suit me. I can use their ideas & change them plus it gives me more ideas. It gives you a base. So anyway it works sort of like an "advanced ideas book" as opposed to coming just from me. | |
| Ole -- 07/04/2005, 16:04:36 -- #16134 | |
| Check out the Joshua Redman album Timeless Tales. He has done some real nice arrangements of some of the modern standards on that CD. Mehldau has also done some nice stuff. Chech out "Anything Goes"... | |
| 7 -- 07/04/2005, 21:03:21 -- #16138 | |
| IMHO "You are the Sunshine of My Life" is plenty Jazzy just the way it is. | |
| sid -- 07/05/2005, 03:58:50 -- #16143 | |
| The principles of development of the American Popular Song are probably covered best by Alec Wilder (WILDER, ALEC, American Popular Song: The Great Innovators, 1900-1950, ed. James T. Maher (New York: Oxford University Press, 1972), 536 pp.) One point he makes is that there's a kind of progression in musical sophistication that goes from tin pan alley pop songs through movie songs to theatre pieces and stage show numbers. The decline of the stage and film musical since the 1960s (hastened by the retreat into saccharine whimsy by formerly sharp operators like Oscar Hammerstein) has had a generally damaging effect on the quality of the standard song. As for the Beatles (who of course were from Liverpool, which is a city in England and therefore they cannot really be said to have contributed to the Great American Songbook), in my opinion their music is generally jazz-proof. Certainly some of the nastiest performances I've ever heard have been attempts to "jazz up" the Beatles. These include Frank Sinatra's gruesome attempts to apply the Nelson Riddle torture machine. sid | |
| Brotherdavies -- 07/05/2005, 04:27:22 -- #16144 | |
| I'll try and get hold of that book. I am English but every song I know is American! I like the idea of finding some more modern standards that are already jazzy - such as Sunshine of my life. Cheers Bro' | |
| SolArt -- 07/05/2005, 05:29:42 -- #16145 | |
| I disagree with what you said about the Beatles, "in my opinion their music is generally jazz-proof." I think you probably simply are a pure Beatles fan! | |
| 7 -- 07/05/2005, 22:45:46 -- #16190 | |
| You should never play your own version (Jazz or otherwise) of a pop tune in public unless your version is at least as good as the original (and ideally an improvement). | |
| sid -- 07/06/2005, 02:38:26 -- #16194 | |
| You said it. | |
| grsbmd -- 07/07/2005, 18:18:36 -- #16275 | |
| You guys inspired me to buy Timeless Tales and it's really good. But for more modern songs covered in a jazz fashion, also check out Herbie Hancock's "The new standard." It's really complex stuff, but you could pull some arranging ideas out of it. | |
| CynBad -- 07/07/2005, 18:25:32 -- #16277 | |
| The Beatles have provided a LOT of material for jazz. Some biggies include: Norwegian Wood, Here There and Everywhere (even McCoy Tyner does this one), She's Leaving Home... The Beatles are not jazz-proof. Virtually nothing is jazz-proof. | |
| piano paul -- 07/08/2005, 05:52:23 -- #16280 | |
| Bacharach was the man! I had a go at learning Alfie last Christmas and even with my fledgling knowledge of jazz, found plenty of room for reharmonisation and experimentation. Plus it's just such a beautiful melody. In fact I am listening to the Best of Bacharach as I write. There's something very sexy about this music. I think Burt was in touch with his feminine side. He understood the fairer sex. | |
| Brotherdavies -- 07/08/2005, 07:28:52 -- #16284 | |
| I think you are right - I got a Bacharach CD this week and there are a number of songs that jumped out at me (I'll Never Fall in Love again, Raindrops Keep Falling, Look of Love). It's classy music in the same way that Gershwin is classy and you want to play it, play it, play it! Bro' | |
| SolArt -- 07/08/2005, 08:47:11 -- #16286 | |
| Right on Bro! I too am fond of Bacharach, plus it reminds me of pleasant days gone by. Too bad I don't feel like sharing some great chord systems of my know-how at this point, because it took me most of my life to get there (there is such a thing as personal identity!). Heh-heh, I know how to sound like him! | |
| LarryC -- 07/08/2005, 12:16:13 -- #16296 | |
| Check out Jarreau's version of "She's Leaving Home" with Joe Sample on piano from the Tenderness CD/video | |
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