| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: comping rhythms | |
| bluemoon33 -- 02/28/2004, 03:48:35 -- #1822 | |
| Hey folks, Does anybody have any suggestions where I can pick up some cool comping rhythms? What I do now works it's just getting old. Maybe you can recommend some books or a few easier tunes or albums to check out w/ some good grooves. Thanks, Blue | |
| Rick -- 02/28/2004, 03:52:11 -- #1825 | |
| I'd say the best thing to do is to listen to the greats. Great compers- Herbie Hancock Wynton Kelly Dave Kikoski Chick Corea Monk etc etc etc LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN! :-) or alternatively...there is a section on comping in Mark Levine's "the Jazz Piano Book" Rick | |
| Rick -- 02/28/2004, 03:53:06 -- #1826 | |
| oh yeah Albums I know its not that famous but this album has some stupidly good comping on by Dave Kikoski- Bob Berg's Another Standard Herbie Hancock is great on Wayne Shorter's- Speak No Evil | |
| Dr. Whack -- 02/28/2004, 07:35:01 -- #1833 | |
| In addition to Rick's excellent advice, keep in mind that you can't really go into a tune expecting to be able to play your newly discovered comping bag of tricks...first and foremost you have to listen to and support the soloist ("comp" is slang for "accompany") Bottom line; it's not what you play, it's how and when (and when not)you play it that makes it happen...not to mention who your playing with...your comping grooves mihgt not be at fault... (sorry about the dangling preposition, I felt it was appropriate in this context:) groove on! | |
| smg -- 02/28/2004, 07:59:22 -- #1835 | |
| A few suggestions- 1.Over in the links section,you'll find both Hal Galper and Larry Simons' sites listed...these two have sections dealing with this in specific. 2.If you read music,the best way to develop a sense of this(and have a practical approach to developing the kinds of stuff you'll get from following Ricks'advice re-listening) is to check out some of the transcriptions in that section here (or the ones in links)that have the LH written out. 3.Doing an online search of percussion sites will get you to the huge number of sites that offer free downloads of written rhythms,in fact a little ways down this page in Scot's thread about the Bebop Bible I gave a link to Bob Taylors' site,he has some stuff there like this....this will develop your overall rhythmic sense and free you up from stagnant patterns. 4.If you are at the level as a player where you can get into playing in a group context(like sitting in at a session,meeting players and getting involved in a group,especially one where the drummer and bassist have a developed concept)this is the best way to pick up things in this area of playing by "osmosis". | |
| Mike -- 02/28/2004, 08:43:54 -- #1839 | |
| I remember thinking my comping was horable for years. I thought it was boring and a real downside of my playing. A guitar player that I jammed with a lot at the time disagreed back in the late seventies. He was studying with a hot Boston Jazz guitarist at the time named Randy Roos. So he brought Randy a tape of one of our Jams and asked Randy to comment on my comping on "All the things You are". Randy said my Comping was fine and he would be happy to have me comp for him any time. This was unbelievable to me....... Randy Roos at the time played with all the top piano players in Boston. Many years later I have found that soloists hear piano players much like I hear bass players . I do not really like bass players doing all kinds of cool Rhythms under my improvisations... Give me a bass player who will play quarter notes and half notes in the pocket anyday!!!!!!!! For the most part soloists prefer a pianist to play half notes and whole notes as well in a way that is rhythmically definite. Absolutely listen to the greats as advised above but dont venture to accompany people with those ideas unless you really understand the context in which those rhythms are used and unless you really have them down. And just because a soloist is going to respect Herbie Hancock laying down a sophisticated comping patern does not mean thay are going to so readily hear it coming from you. I dont know if i got my thoughts out on this as clearly as I could have....... sorry if I did not. | |
| 7 -- 02/28/2004, 08:48:01 -- #1840 | |
| Here's the standard response from my personal LJP FAQ: Comping The "Dues and Don'ts" of accompaniment. http://www.JeffreeBrent.com/Lessons/comping.html 7 | |
| Scot -- 02/28/2004, 11:17:50 -- #1847 | |
| I'd like to add that when you are comping, you do not have to play every chord change. I hear a lot of pianists making sure they hit every single change regardless of what's going on. Often the reason for that is simply to not get lost. But it's better to keep the tune in your head and only comp when "asked to" by the music the soloist, ensemble, orcurrent situation calls for. Remember- comping is accompanyment, and the reason for doing it is not to be heard, not to turn heads, but to add to the music and make the music better. That document above is great- there are a lot of compers who think for some reason it's "their" showcase, especially the inexperienced players with a lot of chops. When I'm comping, I'll sometimes sit out an entire section if the soloist is jamming in such a way that I'm not even needed. As someone said, less is more. In other situations, like funk, latin, reggae, etc, comping takes on some new duties. Sometimes you have to make the "bubble" happen- a rhythmic figure of some sort. You can hear it in the organs with Bob Marley music, Herbie lays down some heavy stuff in some of his old funk/rock/jazz recordings, latin players often lay down montunoes and other repetitive rhythms, but in the end, it's STILL what the music calls for and not just haphazard. | |
| Scot -- 02/28/2004, 11:19:10 -- #1848 | |
| Oh, and to answer your question, pick up a Jamey Aebersold play along. One of the standards ones like Round Midnight or something in the low numbers. The pianists on those recordings usually have a real nice feel for comping. The Cedar Walton recording is good. If you do, be sure to use the searches at the top of the pgae. | |
| Paul -- 02/28/2004, 14:58:24 -- #1861 | |
| Also they have transcribed some of those Jamey Aebersold play alongs. You can take off the piano part and play along yourself too. Try to record yourself and compare it to the pianist on the track. Recording your practice sessions is a great way to measure your progress. I ussually listen to my practice tapes when I'm stuck traffic and I take mental notes of what I should do to improve. Sometimes I'll play them for other musician friends for feedback. | |
| Scot -- 02/28/2004, 16:37:21 -- #1866 | |
| Heck yeah! I've said it many times on this site- My brother, a monster sax player, records everything he plays, and listens to it before the day is out. It's one of the reasons (plus his file of over 200 transcriptions from Hawkins to Brecker) he is such a mother on that sax. | |
| Rick -- 02/28/2004, 16:55:40 -- #1869 | |
| This may help some people out there, so I'll do it. Comping Tips: (ps i know some of this has already been said but it would be good to get it in one place...forgive me its very late here) 1) Dont play alterations under a soloist unless they are playing them themselves. This is not a total hard and fast rule, but the best place to start. Listen to what a soloist is playing, if they arent playing any alterations (b9,#5 etc)on a dominant, say, dont play an altered voicing, chances are if the soloist is a good one, they will hear your altered voicing and then will feel they will probably have to change their line as to avoid clashes. 2) Less is more (again- in SOME cases), try to comp the gaps that the soloist leaves- it is not hard to achieve a telepathy when you can tell the gaps are going to come! 3) Dont play on every change in a sequence (as Scot said). Lay out, let the soloist do the first chorus (usually on faster tunes) without you comping. Good horn players for example, like to play sections with just the bass and drums as this allows for more freedom. 4) Dont be too rhythmically suggestive if this will get in the way (ie say comping in thirds repeatedly over a fast 4/4 if there is no point) 5) You have 10 fingers, it doesnt mean you have to use them to play a chord, just 3rds and 7ths are nice. 6) Try and follow what a soloist is doing, if he/she plays a phrase you can catch onto...follow them! Herbie Hancock is amazing at this on Wayne Shorter's Speak no Evil...Just try not to overdo it, many horn players dislike Micheal Garrick's (a great UK jazz pianist) comping because he plays nearly everything they play. 7) Try to use different voicings, dont get stuck into just playing Bill Evans chords, or fourths etc. Throw in root voicings, So What, Upper Structures, fourths, clusters etc etc.... 8) Dont go over the top and play too much 9) Erm... 10) Thats it Im really annoyed actually i wrote loads but for some reason about half of it got accidently deleted, which is annoying Hope this is of some help Rick | |
| 7 -- 02/29/2004, 02:02:51 -- #1894 | |
| Rick, Always hit Ctrl-C (copy to clipboard) before you hit submit. You'll be able to retrieve all your info in case of a timeout (unless of course your puta crashes). * * * * * * * I have to disagree with you on your point #2 "try to comp the gaps that the soloist leaves". If I'm soloing, and I decide to leave a dramatic "gap" nothing pisses me off more than some overeager chump from the peanut gallery playing an unwanted fill over my intended rest. I left that hole there for a reason, and if it gets filled by one of the other instrumentalists, it totally takes away the drama of the moment. It's MY solo, of course be sure to put the wind in my sails brothers, but otherwise STAY THE HELL OUT OF MY WAY. Nothing personal Rick. I totally agree that sharing fills while comping behind a singer is a telepathic necessity, but NOT during solos. That's all. 7 | |
| Mike -- 02/29/2004, 07:54:21 -- #1904 | |
| Id be cautious about copying those Aebersold piano players. Great players yes. but they are accompanying soloists that are not there and pretty much with out exception the comping on those play a longs is too busy forcing a soloist to follow the piano players lead... Most of the better soloists I work with would be giving me the evil eye if I started comping like those guys. Listen to how one of those Aebersold guys comp on any of those tunes and then immediatly listen to a recording of an actual session date piano player comping for someone like Miles Davis or Coltrane, or anyone and you will hear my point immediatly, they are no where near as busy as those Aebersold guys. | |
| Dr. Whack -- 02/29/2004, 20:21:02 -- #1923 | |
| I'll second that one mike...some nice ideas there, but way too busy | |
| Rick -- 03/01/2004, 03:37:26 -- #1929 | |
| Yeah of course it isnt a rule...just something you can do which sounds good to me...i worded it wrongly really. | |
| Rick -- 03/01/2004, 04:30:43 -- #1933 | |
| 7, I'd say it was a matter of opinion...one that is pretty much impossible to discuss unless we heard each other comping behind a soloist | |
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