LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Just Friends
pnowanabe -- 02/17/2006, 12:19:21 -- #24322
Speaking of JF, I would like for someone to tell me how they think of this tune or how they memorized it. Forget all the theoretical crap and let's talk practicality. How do you think of this tune?(particularly the elders here Jazz+, 7, Scot, Dalty52)
I mean, if you're on the bandstand and someone says lets play JF in Eb, how do you relate to this tune. Do you think of that C-7 and F7 in bars 3 and 4 as a ii-V in the bIII?? Or what?
Thanks
-J
ps-using the RealBook1 Changes if possible.

7 -- 02/17/2006, 15:59:52 -- #24322
Did you ever see this?

http://www.Jeff-Brent.com/Lessons/JFAnalysis.html

and/or listen to this?

http://www.Jeff-Brent.com/MIDIS/files/JustFriends.mid

I played it modeled after the analysis. Same chords as the Real Book.

7 -- 02/17/2006, 16:54:49 -- #24322
From Robert Rawlins' "Review of Mark Levine, *The Jazz Theory Book*"

Levine posits the chords to John Klenner's "Just Friends" with an analysis that labels each chord as either a ii7, a V7 or a I. Levine presents the chords in the original key of G major, but fails to include a key signature, and proceeds as if the key were C major. The first four chords, two measures of C, one measure apiece of Cm7 and F7, and two measures of G, are analyzed as I in C major, ii7 in Bb, V7 in Bb, and I in G major. This inexplicable analysis requires three keys to explain what is obviously a commonplace chord sequence in the
key of G major.

The analysis that most readily presents itself is a IV followed by iv7 (borrowed from the parallel minor), the insertion of the related V7 of the Cm7 as a chord substitution (nonstructural), leading to I. In all, Levine's analysis of the entire song shows modulations to seven different keys. While there are several instances of secondary function and tonicization in this tune, I am not convinced that it modulates at all.

Perhaps someone familiar with Levine's analysis of "Just Friends" can help out here ...

pnowanabe -- 02/18/2006, 11:54:23 -- #24322
7,
Yeah, actually I have listened to your midi file of this tune and I like how you play that G pedal thing--that's really nice--good idea. I also listened to Warrne Fields version and I like the intro idea that he uses and I use that when I play it. I'll have to check out the other 2 midis there.
So, you would analyze this tune completely in G. You wouldn't think that the C- and F7 in bars 3 and 4 are a 2-5 in the key of Bb. That would be too confusing? I'm just trying to get my mind around this whole anaylsis thing so I can have a definate modus operandi to learning, memorizing and transposing tunes in a very practical manner.If anyone has some advice it would be greatly appreciated.
Take Tune Up for example, would you think 2-5-1 in DMaj going to a 2-5-1 in CMaj or would you think: 2-5-1 in DMaj going to a i-IV7-bVIIMaj? You know, maybe it depends on the tune.
As far as the Levine analysis--I'm not convinced that it's a true harmonic analysis like I said in that other post. But, just an exercise.
-J

7 -- 02/18/2006, 14:56:49 -- #24322
In Ralph Patt's Vanilla Book, he lists the following two possible progressions:

1. | C | % | Cm6 | % |

2. | C | % | F7 | % |

The Cm6 chord is almost identical to the F7. In fact it could be thought of as a kind of F9. (And conversely, an F9 can be thought of as kind of a Cm6).

The Real Book has this progression:

3.  | C | % | Cm7 | F9 |

which is an obvious and common permutation, given the vanilla chord possibilities are Cm6 & F7.

But how do I think of that progression? I think of both bars 3 & 4 as an extended and embellished ivm.

If you regard it as an incomplete ii-V-I (Cm-F7-Bb), you end up implying a resolution which will not take place.

7 -- 02/18/2006, 15:02:47 -- #24322
"Tune Up" is a variation of a Jazz exercise that does a ii-V-I and then goes to the chord of the same name but it turns into a minor and starts the cycle over again.

It goes through 6 keys before it winds its way back to where you started:

| Em | A7 | D | % | Dm | G7 | C | % | Cm | F7 | Bb | % | Bbm | Eb7 | Ab | etc.

As such, you think of it as a ii-V-I in a new key.

SolArt -- 02/18/2006, 15:08:11 -- #24322
Would you explain "|%|" please.

sdm -- 02/18/2006, 15:18:10 -- #24322
Just the repeat symbol.

7 -- 02/18/2006, 16:03:54 -- #24322
The repeat symbols are ||: and :||

The percentage sign symbol means "this measure is the same as the last measure". As such you can think of it as a repeat but only if it means "repeat last bar".

This is standard music notation.

sdm -- 02/19/2006, 14:36:31 -- #24322
OK, if you want to get technical it's "repeat the harmony of the last measure."  So it goes...

robg -- 02/19/2006, 18:29:05 -- #24322
Hi,

John Mehegan defines Just Friends as being in G Major for the whole song, the question must be, when is modulation really a modulation.  One can clearly argue that it doesn't modulate, but that it does travel through other keys, starting with V I in C, then II V in Bb, then two measures back in home Key of G, then II V in Ab.  Perhaps viewing it in G major for the whole song could be correct, It is useful though when you are learning to understand the II V progressions as these allow you to use one scale C major for  G7, CMaj7, giving Mixolydian then Ionian modes, then Bb scale for CM7 and Eb giving dorian and mixolydian modes, and to base an improvisation around this.  

To conclude, I would see it as a song in G major, but travelling through quite a number of keys, therefore kind of two parallel analyses.  Who really knows the answer!!

Jazz+ -- 02/19/2006, 21:45:36 -- #24322
Yeah, I think of C-7 and F7 in bars 3 and 4 as a ii-V
and Bb-7 and Eb7 in bars 7 and 8 as a ii-V

7 -- 02/20/2006, 00:35:23 -- #24322
if you want to get technical it's "repeat the harmony of the last measure."

It just as often means "repeat the melody of the last measure".

So it means "repeat the last measure".

* * * * * * *

Whether you think of the C-7 and F7 in bars 3 and 4 as a ii-V (of Bb) or whether you think of it as simply a two bar ivm, the scale of first choice is still Bb major (C dorian / G minor).

Just as if you think of the Bb-7 and Eb7 in bars 7 and 8 as a ii-V (of Ab) or if you think of it as simply a two bar biiim, the scale of first choice is still Ab major (Bb dorian / G locrian).

sdm -- 02/20/2006, 15:57:13 -- #24322
Say 7, do you know what it's called (serious now)?  I tried to look it up just to improve my handle on musical trivia but with no luck.  And of course I bow to your superior knowledge!

BTW, notwithstanding the minor highjack here, I am following and interested in the JF discussion.  Hope I am forgiven.

7 -- 02/22/2006, 11:43:13 -- #24322
They are called "simile marks".

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musicalsymbols.htm

jaledin -- 02/23/2006, 11:30:33 -- #24322
Good to know -- I too never knew what the bar repeat marks were called, nor how to properly draw them on the paper.

Excellent point, 7, concerning the consonant notes in JF -- I prefer to think of it in one tonality, but it doesn't really matter so much, except maybe in the case where an improvisor might be uncertain of the kind of arc he or she wishes to develop in a given line.  Never thought about this tune (which, incidentally, I prefer in G -- Wynton Kelly has a *very* fast trio version with PC and ... Philly Joe Jones? in this key on one of those classic albums, which flipped me to the G side of life for this tune) in that way before.  Thanks!

7 -- 02/24/2006, 21:51:30 -- #24322
In Ryan Cullen's "Just Friends" solo section he uses the following chords:

|   C69/G   |      %      | Cm6  |   F7     |

| Gmaj7 Am7 | Gmaj7/B Am7 | Bbm7 |   Eb7/Bb |

|    Am7    |    D7/A     | Bm7  |   Em7/B  |

|    A67    |     A67     | Am9  | D7#5 Db9 |


| Cmaj7 |    %     |     Cm7    |    F7/C    |

| Gmaj7 | Gmaj7/B  | Bbm6/G Eb9 | Bbm6/G Eb9 |

|  Am7  |   D7     | F#ø7   B7  |     Em7    |

|  A67  | Am9 D679 |      G     |      D     |

One of the interesting things about the use of his LH is his great fondness for 10ths (both filled and open). Mr Cullen must be a mighty tall man because he hits both a "B D# 10th" and a "Db F 10th" with ease an precision - I can just barely get a D F# 10th, and the abovementioned two spreads are completely beyond my reach.

His open 10ths always have the root in the bottom.

His filled 10ths are either 1 7 10 (7th can be either flat or nat), or in the case of many of his dominant chords 5 3 b7 (the 3rd can be flat or nat):

First Chorus bars 7-12
|  Bbm7  | Bb Ab Db ( 1 b7 b10 )
| Eb7/Bb | Bb G  Db ( 5  3  b7 )
|  Am7   | A  G  C  ( 1 b7 b10 )
|  D7/A  | A  F# C  ( 5  3  b7 )
|  Bm7   | B  A  D  ( 1 b7 b10 )
| Em7/B  | B  G  D  ( 5 b3  b7 )

The open 7th ( 1 b7 ) occurs with relative frequency as well.

The A67 chords are spelled G C# F# (diatonic quartal style).

One interesting section is at the end of the second line of the second chorus. Normally these two bars are expressed as | Bbm | Eb7 |, but Ryan chooses to substitute this figure:

| Bbm6/G Eb9 | Bbm6/G Eb9 |

What makes it more interesting is how his hands interact in these two bars. The LH alternately plays "G Db" and "F Bb Eb" while the RH plays a kind of rapid Bb diminished 7th figure with high melody notes of A and Gb.

It sounds great!

The RH solo section is chock full of swinging and complex Jazz lines. Mr Cullen is an incredible musician.

7 -- 02/24/2006, 21:51:45 -- #24322
In Ryan Cullen's "Just Friends" solo section he uses the following chords:

|   C69/G   |      %      | Cm6  |   F7     |

| Gmaj7 Am7 | Gmaj7/B Am7 | Bbm7 |   Eb7/Bb |

|    Am7    |    D7/A     | Bm7  |   Em7/B  |

|    A67    |     A67     | Am9  | D7#5 Db9 |


| Cmaj7 |    %     |     Cm7    |    F7/C    |

| Gmaj7 | Gmaj7/B  | Bbm6/G Eb9 | Bbm6/G Eb9 |

|  Am7  |   D7     | F#ø7   B7  |     Em7    |

|  A67  | Am9 D679 |      G     |      D     |

One of the interesting things about the use of his LH is his great fondness for 10ths (both filled and open). Mr Cullen must be a mighty tall man because he hits both a "B D# 10th" and a "Db F 10th" with ease an precision - I can just barely get a D F# 10th, and the abovementioned two spreads are completely beyond my reach.

His open 10ths always have the root in the bottom.

His filled 10ths are either 1 7 10 (7th can be either flat or nat), or in the case of many of his dominant chords 5 3 b7 (the 3rd can be flat or nat):

First Chorus bars 7-12
|  Bbm7  | Bb Ab Db ( 1 b7 b10 )
| Eb7/Bb | Bb G  Db ( 5  3  b7 )
|  Am7   | A  G  C  ( 1 b7 b10 )
|  D7/A  | A  F# C  ( 5  3  b7 )
|  Bm7   | B  A  D  ( 1 b7 b10 )
| Em7/B  | B  G  D  ( 5 b3  b7 )

The open 7th ( 1 b7 ) occurs with relative frequency as well.

The A67 chords are spelled G C# F# (diatonic quartal style).

One interesting section is at the end of the second line of the second chorus. Normally these two bars are expressed as | Bbm | Eb7 |, but Ryan chooses to substitute this figure:

| Bbm6/G Eb9 | Bbm6/G Eb9 |

What makes it more interesting is how his hands interact in these two bars. The LH alternately plays "G Db" and "F Bb Eb" while the RH plays a kind of rapid Bb diminished 7th figure with high melody notes of A and Gb.

It sounds great!

The RH solo section is chock full of swinging and complex Jazz lines. Mr Cullen is an incredible musician.

7 -- 02/24/2006, 21:57:47 -- #24322
The second line of the first chorus is also notable for his LH use of what I call the "Moondnace Trick":

| Gmaj7 Am7 | Gmaj9/B Am7 |

The LH fingers the Gmaj7 as a huge 10th:  G F# B ( 1 nat7 10)

The Am7 follows suit with A G C ( 1 b7 b10 )

The Gmaj9/B retains the same hand shape with B A D ( 3 9 5 ).

Jazz+ -- 03/21/2007, 14:53:56 -- #24322
Lately, like Rawlins, I think of the first line in Just Friends as

| IV | IV  | iv- |  bVII   | (iv- bVII is a ii V itself)

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