LearnJazzPiano.com archives: playing as loud as mccoy

trocadero -- 03/18/2006, 13:10:44 -- #25318

I realise that the Coltranes classic quartet with Mccoy Tyner, Jimmy Garrison and Elvin Jones could get pretty loud. I wonder how McCoy managed to get hes technique together to be able to play so loud that he did? When I listen to live recordings and Elvin is really going at it on the pianosolos you can still here every note that mccoy plays even when he's playing a million notes per second. I guess I could start with my hand a feet up in the air and strike one note as hard as mccoy but he plays 16:s in a 170 tempo just as hard. I dont have any classical training so I suppose my technique isn't the best but I still wonder how mccoy managed it solo after solo night after night. Any thoughts?

CynBad -- 03/18/2006, 13:47:26 -- #25318

He doesn't play loud.  He plays big chords.  He uses a very thick,  orchestral texture. Try to play musically and with good technique, rather than making it into an athletic event. Use your ear to achieve the sound you want, not brute force.  It works!

Jazz+ -- 03/18/2006, 17:42:26 -- #25318

They had microphones amping the piano.

Jazz+ -- 03/18/2006, 17:44:15 -- #25318

And there is a velocity of attack which can produce a loud sound without hitting all that hard.

Jazz+ -- 03/18/2006, 17:47:39 -- #25318

When I see McCoy playing fast he looks and sounds like he is light on his fingers. Realize that the hammer has already been thrown by the time the key is halfway depressed and hitting the keybed is just follow through. The speed of the key drop effects the velocity and volume of the hammer striking the srings.

hepcatmonk -- 03/19/2006, 02:40:13 -- #25318

McCoy played extremely loud, even though the piano was miked. You can really hear it in just the quality of his tone. The thing with McCoy is exactly as Jazz+ said: the attack velocity of the notes. I would say the best way to practice this are the Dohnanyi piano exercises, playing them loud, extremely slow, perfectly relaxed. Also, considerable hanon practice helped out my approach, tone, and volume projection at the piano. You need to use arm weight effectively and be perfectly relaxed. McCoy had an advantage--he was double jointed. If you watch the Trane videos, you will see how McCoy's fingers slope strangely over the keys: this is why. Those strong knuckles helped him really "get into" the keys and play powerfully. He was always relaxed. It was full, not harsh.

jmkarns -- 03/20/2006, 11:45:48 -- #25318

Ah... Der Hammerklavier!  That's why I gave up the zither.

jhirth -- 03/21/2006, 15:19:45 -- #25318

if his playing looks so effortless it means his using the weight of his arms to get the volume, smaller players would need to use more of their body

pnowanabe -- 03/21/2006, 15:33:50 -- #25318

McCoy Tyner is a pretty big guy from what I remember: tall, powerful and big hands. I don't think that Miles liked his playing though, I remember him saying that McCoy was a "banger". Anybody remember that from his autobiography?? You read that book and you end up saying "mofo" for weeks, he uses that word so much. He uses it as a noun, pronoun, adverb, verb, adjective--you name it. The funniest part of that book is the episode when Miles is in the cab with Charlie Parker--that's just hilarious and a close second is the scene where Philly Jo Jones escapes from the hotel room so he doesn't have to pay. Those guys just lived in a different world. Here's a question for the jazz historians here, did McCoy ever play with Miles?? -J

knotty -- 02/24/2007, 21:42:42 -- #25318

Hi all, so here it goes. I'm in the process of purchasing a piano. Since I'm relatively new to the piano world, the process is somewhat daunting. That's why I humbly ask for your input. Me and my friend drove to Jordan Kitt's today. Salesman were ok as far as I can tell. I tested Kawai K2, K3, K5,  Boston 118, 2 Cristoforis and some Steinway upright (for the sake of comparison) I liked the Kawai K2. I could not really hear a different between K2-K3 or K5. However, I thought the Kawais were more pleasing than the Cristofori. It seemed like the K2 was a good piano for the price. So I have a couple questions. 1) I read Kawais are pretty much sure bets. I also read that K2s, for what it's worth, are built in Indonesia. My un-experienced ear liked the sound of the K2. I'm not sure I want something much bigger because the room it will be in is just not that big. (if that makes sense). Any opinion on whether the K2 is good value? 2) Without much negotiation, the price was going to be 4k all included (tax, delivery, tuning, bench). I didn't want to negotiate at all because I was not ready to play that game quite yet, but considering this was his offer from the 4.5k or so sticker price, I sense I can get this for a few hundred less. Do you think that's a reasonable price? 3) 4k is very much in my comfort zone. But I would consider spending a bit more if it's worth it. Can you think of any other piano I must consider? (the salesman said the Boston 118s was a good value at 6200 sticker price. Frankly, I could not hear why) 4) I read mixed reviews on Jordan Kitt's. Basically that they were somewhat on the pricey side but also reliable. I'll appreciate any comment or advice there. Few notes: - there's a local store with great reputation in my area (dc) that sells used pianos. I feel much more comfortable buying new than used, mostly because of my inexperience, but I'll take advice from you guys if you think I should reconsider. - it must be a upright, no room for a grand. Thanks!!

knotty -- 02/24/2007, 21:44:36 -- #25318

It looks like I double posted. Not sure why... sorry :/

CynBad -- 02/25/2007, 11:01:58 -- #25318

I have a Kawaii that's pretty decent, but only because I couldn't afford a Yamaha.

CynBad -- 02/25/2007, 11:08:50 -- #25318

Kawai.

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