LearnJazzPiano.com archives: How much is too much?

jwv76 -- 08/17/2006, 18:56:43 -- #29355

I've been puttiing in some long hours at the piano lately. My wrists and fore arms are sore. I've been transcribing a Sonny Rollins solo. I use software on my computer to loop the faster licks over and over again and playing along with it until I get it right. Is a little soreness normal, like when you go running or exercise and the next day your muscles are sore? The thought of getting carpal tunnel scares the sheesh out of me. Any general safety guidelines? When do you know you should give it a rest?

CynBad -- 08/17/2006, 19:03:45 -- #29355

Are you independently wealthy?

Scot -- 08/17/2006, 21:43:08 -- #29355

Just like any workout, ice those sore areas down after a long session. Don't laugh, if ice didn't work, you wouldn't see every athlete in the world icing their sore spots down. The ice will help reduce inflamation, allowing muscles and joints to heal up faster. However, with that said, you better be using perfect technique when putting all that time in.  If you haven't taken any classical lessons from a good teacher, you may want to consider doing that for a few months so they can straighten out any technique problems you might have. Poor technique will cause all sorts of repetitive stress injuries over time. Did I mention that proper technique is essential? If you know you have great technique, and you're practicing until the ligaments and tendons are getting stressed, then you're probably putting in too much time. Also make sure you do both extended hand positions and closed.  I mean, if you are working on arpeggios for a while, work on some hanon afterwards to help even out the workout.

wdennissorrell -- 08/17/2006, 23:46:23 -- #29355

Ice is extremely effective but limit your exposure to 20 minutes at a time as secondary swelling associated with hypothermia is a possibility. I usually cycle twenty minutes on with twenty minutes off, I also like to use a cloth barrier and not have direct ice contact. NSAID's also offer relief from associated injuries. These include aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen sodium, in all their various and sundry names. All NSAID's are hard on your digestive tract and should be taken with food. Acetaminophen (Tylenol) is not an NSAID and will not relieve swelling, but it is an analgesic that will help with the pain. It is possible, with experience, to know your body well enough to determine which type pain you have and therefore which mode of treatment is best for you. That said, in general the best treatment for most injuries is most commonly "RICE". Rest, Ice , Compression, and Elevation.  Obviously if the issue is carpal tunnel related there is neural compression present which needs addressed medically. If you do not improve rather quickly with your home treatment, then it is time to visit a neurologist. Peace out.

jazzwee -- 08/19/2006, 23:04:19 -- #29355

wdennissorrell, at least we now know what you do for a living ;-) jwv76, don't be impatient. The learning actually comes from the resting time (sleeping time). So don't practice the same thing over and over. Practice different things at once. The side benefit to this is that you use different muscles and you get less tired.

jwv76 -- 08/20/2006, 02:32:22 -- #29355

Thanks jazzwee, that makes a lot of sense. I tend to practice things into the ground. I'm SO determined to make progress, and yet the more times i play through something the more my concentration dissipates, and the less able I am to play accurately. It always amazes me when I force myself to take a break, and then come back to what I was working on how much easier it seems. I guess it's just a matter of learning what my concentration threshold is and working with it, not against it.

jazzwee -- 08/20/2006, 09:43:43 -- #29355

It is helpful to recognize the limitations of what you can learn at one shot. Knowing that helps you plan out what you will learn over a period of time by practicing multiple things at once. Thus you end up improving without a lot of stress. BTW - the key here is to get practice to the point of not making a mistake. Then stop, and move on to another thing. That way your brain is trained on the perfect approach. The next time you do the same practice, it will be easier, yet you didn't do any extra work. You also need to set realistic expectations. Let's say that learning complex things may take a month or two of practice. If you plan on learning 10 things in that time period, you will end the month or two competent in 10 things, with each thing being practiced daily but not at extreme amounts of time.

7 -- 08/20/2006, 10:04:38 -- #29355

t always amazes me when I force myself to take a break, and then come back to what I was working on how much easier it seems. There is a psychological reason that things get easier after taking a break: http://www.Jeff-Brent.com/Lessons/practicing.html

sdm -- 08/20/2006, 11:10:48 -- #29355

Although there's some controversy about this guy, here's a paragraph that applies (link to the full text below): There is only a certain amount of improvement you can expect during practice at one sitting, because there are two ways in which you improve. The first one is the obvious improvement that comes from learning the notes and motions, resulting in immediate improvement. This occurs for passages for which you already have the technique to play. The second one is called post practice improvement (PPI) that results from physiological changes as you acquire new technique. This is a very slow process of change that occurs mostly after you have stopped practicing because it requires the growth of nerve and muscle cells. http://members.aol.com/mccc8888/chapter1_3.htm Worth a read...

Scot -- 08/20/2006, 11:48:31 -- #29355

One of the reasons it's so important to practice things really slow when you're working them out. If you practice slow you are less prone to practicing your mistakes. I was chatting with Benny Green about practicing and he used to find one thing he wanted to work on, a chord progress, a voicing, a few notes of a lick, and he'd go over that stuff for hours and hours. I think when you practice really slow, the subconscious has a chance to catch up so you can actually progress while you're at the keyboard as well as away. This has worked for me. My new thing, apart from learning a new bop blues head every week this year, is to take something like a new chord voicing and very slowly work it out in every key, moving it in every interval, and that sort of thing. After about three hours it's sort of like meditation and I can feel the connections getting stronger.  It's almost... a spiritual musical practice experience, or SMPE for those who know what it feels like :)

SolArt -- 08/22/2006, 03:47:41 -- #29355

I'm with you Scot.

cazort -- 08/24/2006, 19:50:13 -- #29355

I sometimes think the hardest part of practicing is mental.  If you are overdoing it physically, maybe you need to spend more time listening.  I find that if I am trying to transcribe a solo, the most effective way for me to do it is to listen to it over and over again until I memorize it--but check this, i'm not quite ready to play it yet.  First I learn to hum or whistle it.  Then when I get good at doing that (preserving the original inflection, not just the notes) I sit down at the piano and I find it comes very quickly.  If I just start by trying to transcribe or play out the solo, it seems to take forever.

SolArt -- 08/25/2006, 11:53:57 -- #29355

However, the technical aspect must be present as well. One line melodies, no problem, but the rest!

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