| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Bill Evans vs Oscar Peterson | |
| irishmarine -- 09/02/2006, 22:23:00 -- #29599 | |
| Which one do you all prefer, if you have a preference? I personally prefer Bill Evans for his beautiful harmonic and melodic colors, along with his fascinating rythmic displacement. I have deeply been touched by his expressive genius and sensitive, lyrical artistry. Any thoughts greatly appreciated! | |
| dreammonk -- 09/03/2006, 04:14:43 -- #29599 | |
| Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | |
| charlp88 -- 09/03/2006, 06:44:39 -- #29599 | |
| Dear Irish I agree with you 100% I love Oscar but Bill Evans music is in another place , his playing and the sounds he creates is unparalled by any musician I have ever heard I had the pleasure to see him many times at the Vanguard the Gate and concerts His music will never die good listening Charlie | |
| Brotherdavies -- 09/04/2006, 04:48:30 -- #29599 | |
| Which do I prefer? Depends on my mood. | |
| charlp88 -- 09/04/2006, 06:33:57 -- #29599 | |
| Dear brother Can you please explain?thx Charlie | |
| DoubleZ -- 09/04/2006, 08:25:39 -- #29599 | |
| Doesn't matter. Scot Ranney 0wns both of them easy. | |
| CynBad -- 09/04/2006, 11:05:00 -- #29599 | |
| I never cared for Oscar. He puts me to sleep. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Bill Evans was a great artist. | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 09/04/2006, 14:27:18 -- #29599 | |
| Oscar Peterson is the greatest jazz pianist that ever lived besides Art Tatum! I like Bill for certain things, but nobody cooks like Oscar, NOBODY PERIOD!!!!!!!! JV' | |
| charlp88 -- 09/04/2006, 15:00:58 -- #29599 | |
| Dearjazzvirt.there are many ways to COOK.Nobody cooked up the sounds!!!!better than BILL | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 09/04/2006, 15:47:56 -- #29599 | |
| I'm talking about swing. Nobody swings better than Oscar. Bill evans was a great muscian, in his own right. But nobody moves "me" like O.P. Anyway to each his own. Normally, I would'nt go to such lengths to make a point like this as I feel that it goes without saying that people have their own taste, likes dislikes etc. However... I notice that when certain muscians are mentioned they are always dimissed(by one person in particlular) as if they have had no impact on JAZZ. I won't name any names. JV' | |
| pphilip -- 09/04/2006, 16:44:47 -- #29599 | |
| If you're talking about swinging and not virtuoso piano regurgitating. I say nobody swings like Monk. | |
| Scot -- 09/04/2006, 18:18:17 -- #29599 | |
| Well, I enjoy exciting physical piano playing more than I do cerebral music. Piano is a chromatic percussion instrument, so why not play it that way? Oscar knows how to pull an entire big band out of the piano and I'll always love his playing. However, when I hear Bill Evans, sometimes I just have to say, "Wow." His music isn't something I seek out regularly because a lot of it sounds slightly contrived to me. That's probably only because Bill Evans really practiced everything he was going to play. But still, when I hear him putting voicings and harmonies together, and his lines going with them, he really was in a different space. I'd love to see that kind of head with fingers like Oscar. | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/04/2006, 20:11:12 -- #29599 | |
| Peterson has more chops than all others, but he is not the most swinging. Peterson's swing is very on top of the beat and can sound almost mechanical in a nice fluid way. Wynton Kelly and Red Garland both have "swinging" pockets than Oscar (less on top of the beat). Evans doesn't swing hard either, but he had such a great melodic and harmonic thing. | |
| nihonjin -- 09/04/2006, 22:44:55 -- #29599 | |
| Funny way to look at music. It's the same as to dicuss who is a better painter Van Gogh or Picaso. Why not enjoy them both for each of their quality and not make music into a sports event. Nihonjin | |
| AndyD -- 09/05/2006, 05:59:34 -- #29599 | |
| Absolutely right. Different but quality pianists. For me, Oscar is about swing, Evans is about composition one of my favouite Peterson clips: http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/oscar%20peterson%20gal/video/x1p96_oscar-peterson-3a-gal-in-gallico195 one of my favourite Evans clips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNG7PQum-UE Regards Andy | |
| Adam1226 -- 09/05/2006, 08:00:12 -- #29599 | |
| Love that Bill Evans clip. I have a recording of the same song with the same trio, but his solo is even better than the one in this clip. I agree that it's pointless to argue about who's better, but it's defintely insightful to compare their differences. The amazing thing to me is that Bill Evans was a heroin addict. I know this is a common problem for musicians, but it's amazing to me that someone can be so good when they have such a serious problem--how the heck do you practice? -Adam | |
| SolArt -- 09/05/2006, 12:13:53 -- #29599 | |
| Read "The Doors of Perception" by Aldous Huxley. It's pretty interesting. | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/05/2006, 12:21:56 -- #29599 | |
| You do know that Bud Powell and his friends at that time thought Oscar's "swing" feel was not good. | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 09/05/2006, 12:38:11 -- #29599 | |
| I know that bud powell and his friends were jealous of OP's incredible technique, along with his semi-cocky attitude. Beyond that it was bascily a matter of personality differences, Oscar talks about this a bit on his multimedia cd. I would like to clear up something though... Oscar wasn't a full blown virtuoso in his early twenties in the same vein as Art Tatum. It took OP longer to develope and hone his skills, but develope them he did! JV' | |
| Scot -- 09/06/2006, 01:58:40 -- #29599 | |
| I basically got into jazz piano when I heard my first Peter Nero recording. I think it was his version of "Button Up Your Overcoat". I was heavily into classical and hearing a pianist obviously from a classical background doing his jazz thing with the best technique I've ever heard to this day, including OP and Tatum. I don't think he had many equals when it came to pure technique. At the time I liked his music because it was fast, exciting, predictable, and imitatable. When a friend played some OP for me, I pretty much forgot about Peter Nero (still listened to him on occasion though, enjoyable stuff if you can let go of things like how swing is supposed to feel.) OP had nearly that same technique, but he swung hard, like a big band at times. I played trumpet in big bands for 15 years and am no stranger to that sound (one of the many reasons I like Monty Alexander's playing so much). OP beats out Peter Nero and everyone else when it comes to jazz technique, though. If you don't believe me, you haven't heard the Oscar Peterson/Dizzy Gillespie duo recording: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7234613&frm=lk_learnjazz I've completely forgotten what point I was trying to make. Oh well :) | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 09/06/2006, 20:29:55 -- #29599 | |
| If you don't believe me, you haven't heard the Oscar Peterson/Dizzy Gillespie duo recording Oh I believe you alright, here's another one that showcases Oscar incredible playing: http://youtube.com/watch?v=_kNvWQgkDcs JV' | |
| nn -- 09/06/2006, 22:56:16 -- #29599 | |
| bill evans. he has his cool ruthless voicings. hes the best. go bill go. oscar just types types types like a secretary | |
| Scot -- 09/07/2006, 09:59:51 -- #29599 | |
| That youtube video is ridiculous. Being an OP fan as I am, I've hardly ever seen videos of him playing, and never have seen him in person. It's amazing to see what his hands do. cool! | |
| CynBad -- 09/07/2006, 10:14:56 -- #29599 | |
| Scot, OP plays Seattle every year. I'm surprised you haven't seen him. They do charge and arm and a leg, though. I heard something about him having had a stroke, and not playing as well any more. Have you heard that? | |
| Scot -- 09/07/2006, 10:28:10 -- #29599 | |
| He had a stroke of some kind around six years ago? Probably a bit more. Right after it happened his left hand couldn't play at ll, but it's a bit better now and he uses it to play. I just never had a chance to see him. Either gigging, or the price was too high, or something like that. | |
| charlp88 -- 09/10/2006, 05:55:22 -- #29599 | |
| Dear scot; I see where you are coming from and I respect your opinion and I love Oscars playing very much. I respectfully submit the term CHOPS Does not only mean playing fast or playing many notes.There are other things involved like Rhythmic patterns and displacement of phrases and when you add Bill Evans Sound to all this it creates such beautiful music reminiscent of the past masters. Respectfully Charlie | |
| CynBad -- 09/10/2006, 11:31:45 -- #29599 | |
| It means technique - technical playing ability. "Chops" means "mouth/lips" and originally referred to horn players. | |
| optat -- 09/11/2006, 07:12:04 -- #29599 | |
| Oscar Peterson is my favorite musician of all time. I love his music because he embodies all of the elements of music to a high degree: melody, rhythm, and harmony. I own a large amount of his CD's and have listened to most of what he has done. I am always open to new musicians and have tried to get into Bill Evans. I really would like to but of all of the clips of him that I have listened to(and that is a lot) I haven't been convinced enough to comit myself to buying another one of his CD's. I honestly want to get into Bill Evans but his music is lacking some things that I am looking for. For instance, he doesn't seem to have the rhythmic drive that the other "swingin'" pianist's do. Another element that I haven't found Bill Evans display yet is any sort of real blues coloration to his music. I will say that I have found that he does show a sorrowful, meloncholy feel to his music at times, but that doesn't really feel like "the blues" to me. Another thing that I hope I can find from him sometime is an overal dynamic quality to his music. From the one CD I have of him (Trio 64') and various other things I have listened to his music doesn't really build or have a climax. His ideas don't seem to be contingent on each other in a very constructive manner. I do want to end on the positive things that I know of Bill Evans so far. He has really unique and lyrical phrasing which is hard to come around. I also really like his harmonic sense. All of this that I have said is not because I don't think that Bill Evans has some of the qualities that I haven't found in him YET I don't think that he has, I just haven't heard them. So with that I would hope that this doesn't sound destructive in any way and my goal from the people who really know Bill Evans' work is to give me some really good examples of what I am looking for. I am really open to your suggestions. On the other hand, if there are some things about Oscar that you would like to hear AND ARE WILLING TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE I would be extremely happy to try and give you some suggestions of recording from him to help further your music knowledge and appreciation. I just want to say again that I don't want to offend anyone's taste here and that I hope you could help me find a better appreciation for Bill Evans' talent. Sincerely, Anthony | |
| AndyD -- 09/11/2006, 09:15:59 -- #29599 | |
| "OP beats out Peter Nero and everyone else when it comes to jazz technique" Oscar is great to listen to, but I don't agree that he had the best jazz technical playing ability. There are virtuoso moments to enjoy, but I love his music more than anything because it makes my feet tap. I may not know the tune, but he just sweeps me up and carries me along. I enjoy his humming too. I enjoy watching Bill Evans with his head slumped in pure concentration as he interacts with the bass. Musical appreciation is very personal and changes as we develop in various directions. Regards Andy | |
| charlp88 -- 09/12/2006, 05:24:48 -- #29599 | |
| Dear optat ;I think a good example of bill evans swinging is On the album JAZZHOUSE HOW DEEP IS THE OCEAN is the tune. thx Charlie | |
| ronnie -- 09/14/2006, 16:08:31 -- #29599 | |
| Apples and oranges...Another point to keep in mind is early Evans vs. late Evans (his last recordings). Listen to Turn Out the Stars or the Consecration or Last Waltz live sets and compare this to the 1961 Vanguard recordings These are worlds apart. Even the 1967 date with Philly Joe Jones shows a hard swingin, extroverted Evans lit by the fire of Jones' playing. As much as I love OP, his style remained failry constant (IMO). | |
| esotericist -- 09/15/2006, 10:09:32 -- #29599 | |
| I prefer Oscar Peterson. Because I've met him twice! LOL. (love Bill Evans, too). | |
| BlackWhiteKey -- 09/19/2006, 19:38:18 -- #29599 | |
| o.p. vs. bill evans. well for one, bill evans helped make that kind of blue album to start out modal playing for on thing. o.p. had his moments, but i bet evans could bust out 32nd note run when ever he wanted too.bill evans created what no musician could create. bill over o.p. thats final. | |
| charlp88 -- 09/20/2006, 06:40:01 -- #29599 | |
| Dear bw I agree with you whole heartedly. take a listen to a few renditions of Someday My Prince Will Come also on a dvd he used this type of technique when he thought it was appropriate. But NO ONE NO ONE achieved his musical sound | |
| thejaffer -- 09/24/2006, 06:52:43 -- #29599 | |
| Oh I believe you alright, here's another one that showcases Oscar incredible playing: http://youtube.com/watch?v=_kNvWQgkDcs[/i] That's not exactly tasteful though is it? | |
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