Scot Ranney's LearnJazzPiano.com archive: Ear training idea

LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Ear training idea
sykora -- 09/17/2006, 17:37:29 -- #29872
Instead of transcribing bebop licks and Bill Evans voicings, try transcribing Beatles, Aerosmith, Nirvana, Britney Spears etc. tunes. Not only is this a confidence booster (the opening melody of "Stairway to Heaven" is just a little easier than the head of "Shaw Nuff"), but I think it also helps your relative pitch recognition at a more sensible pace. Also, non-jazz harmonies are usually a lot easier to recognize (i.e. emphasized bass). After doing this for a few months and then going back to transcribe "modern jazz" I found myself having a much better ear than before, even though the music is much more complex.
jwv76 -- 09/17/2006, 19:38:07 -- #29872
Yeah, strengthening the ear is just like strenghtening a muscle, any time you exercise it it gets stronger. I was playing around with this program I downloaded off the internet that was supposed to teach you perfect pitch, I toyed with it a few weeks and gave up on it, I'm still not convinced that perfect pitch can be taught (not trying to start up that old argument, just sayin). Anyway, the program would play random pitches and you were supposed to click when a designated pitch was played. I could do it after a while, but the pitch memory wouldn't stay for long when I was done with the exercise. I did find, however, that I did much better at other ear training exercises, the perfect pitch program forced me to really, actively, attentively pay attention to what I was listening to. As for transcribing jazz, I transcribe at half speed. Kinda seems like I'm cheating, but I'm able to get the job done, and I do think I will eventually be able to transcribe at full speed, once half-speed starts to seem too easy, same way that practing slow eventually leads to playing fast. Microsoft Windows comes with a program built into it called Sound Recorder that works good for this. You need to convert your CD files into .wav files, I use Winamp (can download for free), I think there's a way to do it with Windows media player.
Gordon -- 09/18/2006, 11:14:09 -- #29872
What was the perfect pitch program called ?
thejaffer -- 09/19/2006, 12:33:45 -- #29872
Another great exercise you can try for ear training is to play simple organ music (start with two-part LH or RH, plus pedal, then onto 3 part and 4 part), but sing the pedal part. Just get a beginners church organ book or use music by bach, handel, or choral music. It helps your overall musicianship in so many ways. Coordination of hands/voice, improving your voice/pitching, interval recognition, sight reading/singing. When you sing you automatically have to 'hear' what's coming, which is a vital aural skill, especially in jazz. If you write the exercises yourself (species counterpoint etc) you can improve your composition/counterpoint technique too. You're not cheating that much by slowing records down. Horace Silver used to do that when he was first trying to learn jazz.. Don't worry about trying to develop 'perfect pitch'. It's a neat party trick, but not much more. I'm not convinced that you can learn it anyway, and it certainly isn't worth the time and effort. Use that time becomming a better musician in simple and practical ways. (learning tunes for example)
SolArt -- 09/20/2006, 11:52:11 -- #29872
"Don't worry about trying to develop 'perfect pitch'. It's a neat party trick, but not much more. I'm not convinced that you can learn it anyway, and it certainly isn't worth the time and effort. Use that time becomming a better musician in simple and practical ways. (learning tunes for example)" I disagree whole-heartedly with what you're here saying. It isn't easy to learn but I'm progressing. I play the pitches in 4-note octaves (an octave in each hand, also breaking them) starting with F, then going up in fifths, so the white keys come first. But you can do it however you like) listening with my eyes closed. I know enough classical pieces that I have every beginning note covered. This helps a lot. Then I use the freeware "Functional Ear Trainer" (it's SUPER), turning off the cadences to test myself. You can set it up with as few or as many notes as you want; scales, pentatonic scales for example also. Right now I set it up to play notes (single) from random scales. If you just keep on practicing it every day as a part of your routine you'll make progress. There's also a NICE program called "Pitch Train" for only about $9 but I don't have a credit card. Believe me if this is mastered you come out way ahead of others because it makes music so much easier as you hear it "deeper". Many famous musicians have it. Just think how much easier transcribing would be...
SolArt -- 09/20/2006, 11:56:40 -- #29872
It doesn't take much time at all, only a few minutes each session. I encourage this, at least give it a good solid try. You can also "cheat" with your voice to help you get the register narrowed down, until you notice not all the notes need a cheat anymore!
SolArt -- 09/20/2006, 12:01:41 -- #29872
..at the very least you would then hear (& know what they are) starting notes, ending ones, notes that are lingered on, & if you can name that bass note the bass player's playing, it would be a TREMENDOUS asset, no?
CynBad -- 09/20/2006, 16:48:36 -- #29872
Unless the instrument is out of tune or the recording is played back at the wrong speed/pitch. Did you know Sony remastered Miles Davis' All Blue at the wrong speed and pitch? This is what bean counters do when you put them in control of music.
nihonjin -- 09/20/2006, 22:24:10 -- #29872
I would like to recommend the software called wavelab. It can be very useful if your are a pianoplayer (or any other instrumentalist for that matter) You can adjust the pitch of the recording if it's not in tune. You can slow down the tempo without changing the pitch +it has a whole bunch of other great features. Nihonjin
SolArt -- 09/21/2006, 04:31:44 -- #29872
"Did you know Sony remastered Miles Davis' All Blue at the wrong speed and pitch? This is what bean counters do when you put them in control of music." No Cynbad, I didn't know; that's just awful! Musical idiots... People who hear perfect pitch (I've known some) can tell it's a flat or sharp "A" or whatever. I asked one music teacher who had it, about out of tuneness & she said she could hear it was between a C & C# for example. My college Dean of Music had it too, & he could carry on a conversation with a person or two & we tested him by just talking between ourselves about 20' away if he could tell the pitch now; he obviously overheard us & answered immediately the name of the notes we played. We made it tougher & tougher, wilder-- one girl even laying her arm across the keys AND playing additional atonal notes. He named them off without hesitating. Simply amazing the ears he had! He was partial to Brahms.
jazzvirtuoso -- 09/21/2006, 06:01:35 -- #29872
Good point solart. Sometimes the note lands right in the crack and its not quite one or the other but in between, therefore you can actually end up with a flat "A" flat Or somesuch note. :) And just like f sharp is twangy, it actually loses some of the twanginess when its a little flatter than it should be. Solart, have you noticed the twanginess of F sharp yet? JV'
thejaffer -- 09/23/2006, 11:03:41 -- #29872
"Believe me if this is mastered you come out way ahead of others because it makes music so much easier as you hear it "deeper"" For me it was the other way round. Ive always had active absolute pitch (and pitch-sensitive synesthesia), and i certainly believe it makes certain things easier. (i transcribe stuff on a long train journeys for example) But it does not automatically make you a good musician. Sometimes it distracts from the far more important skill of relative pitch (which was something i was guilty of neglecting because i had a shortcut, i heard things 'deeper' when my relative pitch skills rose to the same level) For learning a tune it's better to learn it by ear, irrespective of key. Then you can play it just as easily in any key (provided you have the technical know-how to actually play your instrument) because you're following the progression not the key-specific chords. It can also make you lazy in terms of counting through the form, because you could just wait for the bass player's tonic to come round again for example. As i said, you may be able to teach yourself to learn the recognize pitches without a prior reference. That's certainly a positive thing. I just don't think the benefit of perfect pitch is worth the practice time though, considering there are so many other important things you could be doing. eg. learning tunes, improving your time/rhythm skills, transcribing. etc... My practice philosophy is extremely pragmatic.. and i think people often focus on a single concept for example "ear-training", "rhythm", "technique" ; not realising that these things should be worked on a practical and useful fashion. Not as an individual topic. For example, there is no point learning a whole load of scales/modes, in isolation. That's only of any value when you can apply them all to the tunes you play. It's far better to practice one new scale, and play it to death in the context of real tunes (a number of standards for example), until you can do it with thinking. Same thing applies to technique. Hanon alone isn't enough. With ear-training, it's far better to spend your time transcribing stuff/learning tunes with your instrument (not wiriting it down) This will automatically improve your ears and musical memory at the same time as learning new songs and increasing you improvising vocabulary. Don't think of "ear-training" or pitch training as a subject totally seperate, not connected to real life playing. Always be practical about it and your playing will improve far more quickly.
jazzvirtuoso -- 09/23/2006, 13:33:30 -- #29872
For learning a tune it's better to learn it by ear, irrespective of key. Then you can play it just as easily in any key (provided you have the technical know-how to actually play your instrument) because you're following the progression not the key-specific chords. Hmm.. Intresting. I always thought that you had to know what key you were in before you could transpose something to another key! Again, not an indicment against perfect pitch, but a case for relative pitch. Relative pitch deals with relationships(distance) between tones. Perfect pitch deals with the timbre, quality,or personality of (individual)tones. Thejaffer, Have you ever noticed the twaginness of F sharp. Or, maybe the mellowness of E flat? How about the brightness of A? Doesen't C major seem to have a resolute, sunny sound? Has anyone else with perfect pitch noticed these Qualities? JV'
thejaffer -- 09/23/2006, 17:46:54 -- #29872
I always thought that you had to know what key you were in before you could transpose something to another key. Not really. Not if you've learnt the tune properly in the first place. Imagine a singer without perfect pitch, learning a melody by ear. They have no idea what key they're in, but given their starting pitch, they can sing the rest, because they learn the series of intervals from one note to the next. They can sing it just as easily in any key, (as long as it's within their range) given the particular starting note they follow the intervals. We can do the same by learning a series of progressions in a song. The problem is that as pianists/instrumentalists have a mechanical/technical barrier (that singers don't have) which prevents us playing by ear quite so easily. The purpose of our practice should be to break down this barrier. The simplest exercise is to take a melody you know (happy birthday for example), play a random note on the piano, and then see if you can sing the rest from that note, and let your fingers follow what you sing. Try not to think about or even acknowledge what key your in. It doesn't matter. If you can do that easily with any melody you know, add a bass line, then move on to adding the complete chords.. This is the only practical way of knowing all of your tunes in any key. You don't transpose from one key to another, you learn it properly in the first place so you can follow the progressions from the starting chord, no matter what the key.. F# doesn't twang for me, i see F#major6 as black and purple with a faint shiny surface of light blue/green though... (Ravel's ondine looks glorious)
jazzvirtuoso -- 09/23/2006, 18:19:36 -- #29872
F# doesn't twang for me, i see F#major6 as black and purple with a faint shiny surface of light blue/green though... (Ravel's ondine looks glorious First of all perfect pitch and synthsiea are not synounamous. You seen to be confusing the two. Again perfect pitch is being able to determine a note by the quality of that note. Every note has a special timbre, a special personality to it. Now, thats not to say that the two can't co-exist or coincide together, but they are two completly different things: http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=450 Also, i'm not asking you what you see when you hear F sharp, I'm asking you (cuz you say have perfect pitch) what does that note sound like to you. What type of sound is it to you? Is it grungy, twangy, grity, harsh? Okay here is an excercise to the members of this forum, go to any reasonably tuned piano and play an f sharp, come back to this forum and tell us what your experinces were, what quality does this tone seem to suggest. JV'
jazzvirtuoso -- 09/23/2006, 18:53:13 -- #29872
F# doesn't twang for me, i see F#major6 as black and purple with a faint shiny surface of light blue/green though... (Ravel's ondine looks glorious First of all perfect pitch and synthsiea are not synounamous. You seen to be confusing the two. Again perfect pitch is being able to determine a note by the quality of that note. Every note has a special timbre, a special personality to it. Now, thats not to say that the two can't co-exist or coincide together, but they are two completly different things: http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=450 Also, i'm not asking you what you see when you hear F sharp, I'm asking you (cuz you say have perfect pitch) what does that note sound like to you. What type of sound is it to you? Is it grungy, twangy, grity, harsh? Okay here is an excercise to the members of this forum, go to any reasonably tuned piano and play an f sharp, come back to this forum and tell us what your experinces were, what quality does this tone seem to suggest. JV'
thejaffer -- 09/23/2006, 19:30:53 -- #29872
Perfect pitch means to be able identify pitches without a prior reference. Nothing more. I was just making the point that have synesthesia also, which gives me an additional vantage point harmonically speaking.. Every note has a special timbre. I think your piano needs fixing. This is nonsense. An f# is just a pitch, ie. a frequency of sound which people with perfect pitch can identify at least to the nearest semitone but often more. The timbre (combination of dynamic envolope, overtones etc..) depends on the instrument. There may also be specific reactions that individuals have to particular pitches, so one person may find F# twangy, but it's nothing intrinsic to F#, it's their own cocked up perception. (Like my literally seeing red when i hear 'all blues') This isn't for me though, the timbre of each pitch has nothing to do with its pitch, at least around the semitone range.. it begins to as you change octaves...
jazzvirtuoso -- 09/23/2006, 20:02:37 -- #29872
Perfect pitch means to be able identify pitches without a prior reference. Nothing more. True, but theres has to be a quality about a tone that enables you to remember/recognize that tone. They all have different qualities otherwise you would not be able to recoginize or remember the tone. Again, i'm not arguing about people's own idiosyncrencies. But i'm making a case that the tones/pitches do have different nuances to them(irregardless of the piano) that your playing it own. I'm surprized that you haven't noticed this yourself, as most people that i've talked to (that actually posses perfect pitch agree), esp regarding F sharp. Of course all bets are off if the piano is badly out of tune. <440> Anyway to each his own..... Goodnight! :) JV'
SolArt -- 09/25/2006, 06:15:53 -- #29872
"Solart, have you noticed the twanginess of F sharp yet?" "Thejaffer, Have you ever noticed the twaginness of F sharp. Or, maybe the mellowness of E flat? How about the brightness of A? Doesen't C major seem to have a resolute, sunny sound? Has anyone else with perfect pitch noticed these Qualities?"
SolArt -- 09/25/2006, 06:21:19 -- #29872
...Yes I have. And Eb is mellow as you state, & indeed A is bright. Even though C is often used as a starting when learning music, it tends to stump me, but not in the lower range surprisingly. But yes it does sound resolute, "solid".
Gordon -- 09/25/2006, 08:46:08 -- #29872
I never think of myself as having perfect pitch, but JV's summaries of the nature of different keys (twangy,mellow, bright etc) certainly mean something to me. "The problem is that as pianists/instrumentalists have a mechanical/technical barrier (that singers don't have) which prevents us playing by ear quite so easily. The purpose of our practice should be to break down this barrier" Great advise on learning to improve the ear Mr Jaffer - thanks for that.
CynBad -- 09/25/2006, 09:22:01 -- #29872
Let us not forget that E major is etherial and poignant.
thejaffer -- 09/25/2006, 14:24:45 -- #29872
True, but theres has to be a quality about a tone that enables you to remember/recognize that tone. They all have different qualities otherwise you would not be able to recoginize or remember the tone. But that's the point, the tone (or timbre) is exactly the same for me, provided the instrument is manufactured evenly. I recognize/identify the pitch alone. (Some experienced saxophone players i know have perfectish (?) pitch within the saxphone register because they're are so used to the slight imperfections of tone inseperable from the saxophone's different registers. For example, they hear the 'break' even when listening to a scale on the piano) For example, i could get a computer program to produce pure sine-wave tones of varying pitches. You could see the visual sound wave on an oscilloscope and see that the shape of the sound wave is exactly the same, no matter what the pitch. (this means the timbre is exactly the same) I'd still be able to identify the notes though. Any twangyness, mellowness, synesthetic or emotional response associated just with the key comes from the listener or the instrument, but is not intrinsic to the pitch. (assumuing equal temperament) If you still disagree i'd be intrested to see a scientific explanation
CynBad -- 09/25/2006, 16:48:01 -- #29872
There are many things that science cannot explain... not yet, anyway.
SolArt -- 09/26/2006, 07:14:13 -- #29872
Here's an interesting long read on the subject: http://www.aruffo.com/eartraining/research/articles/gough22.htm
Styles -- 10/01/2006, 16:06:47 -- #29872
The Roman Numeral System is good stuff
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