| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Mccoy Tyner A Virtuoso??? | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 10/17/2006, 18:31:45 -- #30531 | |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PukuQPUKfyU&mode=related&search= | |
| Jazz+ -- 12/23/2006, 21:40:21 -- #30531 | |
| He can be sloppy at times but he's surely a great "jazz vistuoso". | |
| Styles -- 12/25/2006, 08:45:46 -- #30531 | |
| I think he is more suited for group play, as when it is time to solo the sound drops off, and he compensates with banging the left hand... still better than me, but I think his left hand could be more precise and agile. Overall, pretty good but a level below the great solo pianists | |
| CynBad -- 12/25/2006, 15:37:23 -- #30531 | |
| I love how you guys sit here and critique a living legend. There is nobody like McCoy. He's unique. To call McCoy "pretty good" makes me LMAO. | |
| Mike -- 12/25/2006, 23:18:07 -- #30531 | |
| Wow, if there was previously and doubt in my mind Jazz + you have just removed it that you must be one mother fucker to be able to sit in judgement of the likes of McCoy Tyner. Wow I have no words for just how in total awe of you I am. Holy Gd tomaleees. Wow and u too Styles, I had no idea. I am so G F D honored to participate in the same forum as you Gd geniuses. | |
| ziggysane -- 12/26/2006, 00:02:20 -- #30531 | |
| Wow...it's like Daddy just hit Mommy at the dinner table, and everyone is trying to go on eating but it's not really happening. ...the hostility from all around is quite akward. | |
| Mike -- 12/26/2006, 04:14:41 -- #30531 | |
| guess I woke up on the wrong side of the cave huh | |
| Mike -- 12/26/2006, 04:15:16 -- #30531 | |
| christmas brings out the worst in me. | |
| jazz jasper -- 12/26/2006, 07:11:06 -- #30531 | |
| Hey mike I though about 6 months ago that you decided you were being bullied on this site and left never to return, and then popped up again a couple of months ago, I wish you would go away again and really not return you really know how to spoil this site, if i was visiting for the first time I'd be really put off, and the things that you post make me wonder how many people have signed up to this site and then decided that jazz is only for idiots like you. So please can you think about what you've written before you click the 'post message' button, or even better just get lost. | |
| Mike -- 12/27/2006, 01:27:25 -- #30531 | |
| Ok Jasper, i will go away again. I am not good enough to be here I realize now. After seeing people here are good enough to find fault with McCoy Tyner. So Long and Thanks for all the Fish | |
| Styles -- 12/27/2006, 12:46:19 -- #30531 | |
| I for one know that McCoy is legendary and a great artist, it's just my view he is not a virtuoso in the sense of having a full command of the instrument. That's the beauty of jazz, people play the best way they want to play and it's all good! I look at things from a wide-ranged musical view, which is why I prefer people like Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Hiromi, Oscar Peterson. They are more precise. I still like Thelonious Monk, but I can't say he is a virtuoso. And I'm sorry you guys are mad, but I can't say McCoy is either! I'm not saying he is garbage, hasn't made classic albums, and isn't a legend! BUT it's just my taste! I'm not the editor for Downbeat magazine or anything! I'm not reviewing the concert! And no don't leave Mike! Just because somebody gets pissed it's not the end of the world! I'm just a rookie, what do I know, right? I know I type like a know it all, but don't take it like that! So if ONE honest opinion on ONE piano player(no, he's MCCOY TYNER) is enough to cause so much uproar, then ALLOW ME to leave! I'm tired of protecting my neck everytime I press Post Message! | |
| pphilip -- 12/27/2006, 14:52:54 -- #30531 | |
| Check out "Nights of Ballads and Blues" from 1963. A very nice treatment of standards from McCoy Tyner. | |
| jazzwee -- 12/27/2006, 16:08:46 -- #30531 | |
| Opposing opinions are the heart of this forum. Let's just control our words though, ladies and gents. There's no need to be aggressive. What's wrong with just letting your views known in a positive way? McCoy Tyner is important in jazz. We wouldn't be looking at fourth chords and improvising in fourths the same way without him. Although that doesn't relate to the virtuouso question. There's also a lot written about Monk's supposed failings in technique. Yet people have seen him play classical music and he plays it with the usual technique. It is said that he plays the way he does to make a statement about being unique. So don't be quick to judge any of the masters. | |
| jaledin -- 12/28/2006, 10:56:28 -- #30531 | |
| I think improvising in fourths does relate to virtuosity. Anyway, McCoy Tyner can play scales really, really fast. You can hear it when you listen to his recordings. It's hard to mistake, in fact, that he can play scales really, really fast. How would one even measure having a "full command of the instrument" in the context of a jazz performance? A bravura cadenza tacked onto the end of every tune? It's an inappropriate suggestion which counters all standards of good taste and decency. There's just no place for that kind of demonstration in most styles of music, with the exception of a concert stage consisting of high-Modernist rep or late-romantic claptrap. The only reason classical pianists can pull off certain tricks is that they spend their days practicing explicitly those feats of technique for the purpose of playing music which requires a few of those tricks -- it's not a worthwhile thing to practice just for it's own sake, as any good pianist in any genre I've ever met would say. | |
| jaledin -- 12/28/2006, 10:59:03 -- #30531 | |
| "it's" = "its." This particular discussion caused me to lose 15 IQ points already. Damnit! | |
| wdennissorrell -- 12/28/2006, 11:55:58 -- #30531 | |
| For my two cents worth, which of late has been devalued to around a half a penny. Who cares if McCoy Tyner is a virtuoso? Who knows what the exact criteria is for that selection? A better question may well be is do you like his music/musicality or not. I am far from being nearly as proficient a pianist as most here let alone as far as jazz playing is concerned. I care a lot less the labels attached to a person than the appreciation for that individuals musicality. I stand amazed at many great pianists that have gone before. It is a ludicrous proposition for so many members of this forum to become so upset by a label placed upon any pianist. I have read replies in this column that seem to have so personalized this discussion as to render it moot and meaningless to me. I would hate to think that anyone would resign fellowship in this forum over expressed opinions. This of course is my opinion and perhaps only mine, but this is one of the most hurtful episodes that I have seen here in quite a while. Peace out! | |
| Barry -- 12/29/2006, 08:39:11 -- #30531 | |
| In response to something Styles said, I'd like to recommend listening to some of McCoy Tyner's solo piano stuff if anyone hasn't heard it. His left hand work is as clear as you like and he plays wonderful stride and walking bass. This suggest to me that McCoy Tyner's LH technique is pretty sound. What Styles refers to as 'banging' his left hand is his unique way of bringing a bigger sound to the style of music he was playing. The thing is, when you're following two hundred of John Coltrane's full-on 'sheets of sound' choruses, the crystal clear delicacy of a Red Garland-type solo would surely fall flat on its face. For me, the reason 'the sound drops off' when it's time to solo is because a) Pianos don't sound like saxes and b) part of the reason the previous solo sounded so great was due to McCoy's big, full, two-handed comping. I agree with Jaledin, in that I have no idea what 'full command of the instrument' means in a jazz context. The only thing I could hazard a guess at, is that it means you are capable of playing the music you want to in your way. By that definition, all the greats have that ability - that's why they're great! I really hope that Styles doesn't think that I'm having a go, I'm really not. I appreciate that he/she prefers players who play in a 'crisper' style, with more clearly articulated lines. Heck, I kind of do myself most of the time. However, the point I am trying to make is that it's a personal preference and I think that to say a player like McCoy's technique is somehow inferior is a little erroneous as he plays like he does for stylistic reasons. Although I normally prefer clarity of articulation, personally listening to someone like Hiromi bores me senseless. Whilst I can obvioiusly appreciate her talent, her playing doesn't elicit any emotional response in me. Contrastingly I'm not an enormous McCoy Tyner fan either, but there are times when he makes me jump of the sofa with excitement (like the first time I heard 'Passion Dance'). To summarise, I'm simply saying that we should perhaps be wary of criticisms of technique in famous jazz musicians because there's a strong case for saying that they choose to play like that for musical reasons. Technical comparisons in classical music are easier to make because the repertoire, and the way it should be performed is more clearly defined than in jazz. Jazz musicians have continuously re-invented both the repertoire and the way the music should be played from day one. Jazz is all about personal expression and great players scream individuality. Nobody else sounds like McCoy Tyner. Nobody was playing like he was before he came along. He had a new piano sound at the time Coltrane was looking to make a new quartet sound. That's why he picked McCoy and together that band redefined jazz performance yet again. If you're partially responsible for redefining how jazz can be played - I think that should qualify you as being truly great. | |
| jaledin -- 12/29/2006, 12:11:23 -- #30531 | |
| Nothing to add, just to say that's one of the most interesting analyses of McCoy's style, especially with Trane, that I've seen. Accompaniment like on "One Down, One Up" is not to everyone's taste (nor to everyone's ability) but I can't think of a more perfect accompaniment for that particular performance. | |
| hepcatmonk -- 12/29/2006, 12:59:08 -- #30531 | |
| Don't look at McCoy's playing in the context of Coltrane's group for a change...Listen to his solo on Inception from the album of the same name. Phenomenal piano solo. Truly one of the greatest players ever. | |
| Brotherdavies -- 01/09/2007, 04:56:47 -- #30531 | |
| I only have one Tyner albumn, Plays Ellington. I play it over and over again. There is so much passion and rhythm. So much beauty in the textures, shapes and colours. I am in awe of that man. Bro' | |
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