| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Art Tatum R.I.P 11/5/1956 | |
| 7 -- 11/05/2006, 13:26:11 -- #30945 | |
| http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6434701&ft=1&f=1008 | |
| Scot -- 11/05/2006, 15:22:54 -- #30945 | |
| I have a hard time keeping a straight face when I talk to pianists, young and older, who haven't heard of Tatum or haven't heard his music. Talk about missing out on the roots of jazz as well as probably the best pianist that ever lived! | |
| thejaffer -- 11/05/2006, 16:23:58 -- #30945 | |
| He could move his fingers fast...but best pianist ever?? not by a long shot. | |
| Scot -- 11/05/2006, 17:49:42 -- #30945 | |
| I probably should have said "jazz pianist". But when you have guys like Horowitz, Nero, Watts, and others who also say things like "the greatest" about Tatum... My idea of a great jazz pianist is someone who has complete harmonic mastery, can play anything they want to, and can create complex, interesting, and complete arrangements of songs. Tatum could do all that and there's not a pianist (jazz or otherwise) alive or dead who could do it as well as him. A person can take some time to study his playing and listen to the bigger picture of what's going on behind all that right hand ornamentation, it will blow you away. I admit, I came into Tatum late, just a few years ago. Before then I was not even close to being musically mature enough to get what he was doing and thought to myself, "Just a bunch of notes, lots of fingers, I'd rather listen to Chic." But I can hear it now and the more I listen to him the more I'm blown away by the ideas he put into his music, and some of that stuff is still new and fairly untouched. Lots of great material there for anyone to work on. | |
| AndyD -- 11/05/2006, 21:21:44 -- #30945 | |
| Scot, I'd agree with your statement, Tatum was the best pianist ever, and my opinion is also that he was the greatest jazz soloist. Not because of the speed he played, or the invisible graded pedalling, or his phenominal memory or perfect pitch. Nor the fact he absorbed all previous music from Chopin to Sims and transformed it into something new and then showed everyone where it was going to be decades ahead. Not even because of the light and elegant touch with which he played. Some classical players could probably equal some of these factors. What all the greats of jazz or classical music were astounded by and could not do themselves, was the improvisation at speed, composition on the hoof at such an incredible pace. Classical pianists who can improvise are a rare breed anyway. But Tatum could play classical. He could do it all, with an easy grace that hides the difficulty. I'd like to share with you a brief page I put together of Tatum quotes: www.tatumquotes.piczo.com Regards and thanks for this site, Andy PS. And it was good to see that I was not the only person in the world who remembered the anniversary. | |
| 7 -- 11/06/2006, 09:40:50 -- #30945 | |
| Remember that many have said "There are two kinds of Jazz - The kind of Jazz before Bird and Jazz after Bird". A great deal of Charlie Parker's ideas stem directly from Tatum. Before Charlie got famous, he worked as a bus boy (or something like that) at one of the clubs Tatum played at. Charlie worked there in order to hear as much of Tatum's playing as possible - and when Tatum left the club, Charlie Parker quit his job. | |
| Whacky -- 11/06/2006, 10:57:53 -- #30945 | |
| Yeah, I doubt we'll ever hear or see anything like him again - and even if we do, remember who thought of it :) | |
| Scot -- 11/06/2006, 11:53:36 -- #30945 | |
| Great quotes - Thanks for posting them! | |
| DoubleZ -- 11/06/2006, 13:02:25 -- #30945 | |
| According to Oscar Peterson's biography, Oscar, when he was 12, listened to an Art Tatum album and was so intimidated that he didn't touch the piano for months! (Actually, come to think of it, that's the same effect Oscar has on me!) | |
| Scot -- 11/06/2006, 14:15:12 -- #30945 | |
| I've heard the story a little bit different. When Oscar was a youngster and practicing piano, his Dad decided to take him on the train to go to the city where Tatum had a gig. Oscar's dad said something to the effect, "Now that's piano playing." It may be that Oscar was discouraged from playing the piano, but that didn't last long, obviously :) | |
| AndyD -- 11/07/2006, 00:22:25 -- #30945 | |
| Double Z, Scot, That anecdote about Peterson is also in the book on Tatum by James Lester, 'Too Marvelous for Words'. His Dad took him and I seem to remember the effect on Peterson as being he felt like stopping playing and perhaps did for a short while. But he became Tatums pupil, along with Billy Taylor if memory serves me. Andy | |
| YourMove -- 11/07/2006, 11:01:31 -- #30945 | |
| 20th Century Piano Genius by Tatum, Art Good CD to start? | |
| Scot -- 11/07/2006, 11:47:07 -- #30945 | |
| I read somewhere that there is a new set of Tatum recordings out there that contain more of his house party and "unofficial" playing. I'd recommend that set. It could be that the one you mentioned is the name of this new set, I haven't looked into it enough to find out. | |
| YourMove -- 11/07/2006, 11:55:32 -- #30945 | |
| From what you say I believe it is that one, so I will get it. Download from legal napster. Thanks for your help. | |
| Styles -- 11/07/2006, 12:59:45 -- #30945 | |
| Art Tatum was gifted beyond belief. All the things we classical pianist hold dear: articulation, dynamics, tone, counterpoint Art was more profecient than many give credit for. All the things we jazz pianists hold dear like harmonic invention and improvisational talent, Art was also a master at. He is very comparable to Liszt(maybe better), and is by far the greatest jazz musician ever. A few people today have greater technique, but no one plays with the authenticity and structural genius of Tatum. I listen to him and realize the truth behind the saying "life isn't fair". Piano Starts Here is also a worthy album that includes his legendary Tea For Two and Tiger Rag. RIP Tatum, we miss you! | |
| jazzvirtuoso -- 11/07/2006, 17:15:43 -- #30945 | |
| A few people today have greater technique Really? The only one I can think of would be Oscar, but i'm not really even sure about that. Of course, no one had Tatums ears, he could hear and play anything. I think he had ears like mozart! Yep, your right life isnt fair, lol! So sad cuz he really died to young. I often wonder how his playing would have matured had he lived a full life like Oscar. JV' | |
| Barry -- 11/09/2006, 08:30:02 -- #30945 | |
| The way I heard the Oscar story, as a youngster he was getting a bit big-headed about his playing so his Dad took him to see Tatum. Soon brought him back down to earth! lol | |
| YourMove -- 11/10/2006, 10:06:55 -- #30945 | |
| Today I found the time to really listen to the 20th century piano genius double CD. So far only the first CD though. I believe the playing is artistically unmatched but I simply don't like to listen to his style. The arpeggios are driving me crazy. It feels like wild bee's in my stomach. I guess just a matter of taste, as always... I like many pieces of his play but those take only about 20 secs until another arpeggio starts. Btw I like the not studio atmosphere of the CD Ambient noise, applauding and chatting after the songs are audible. Maybe I post another messeage if I change my mind after listening to CD #2 | |
| AndyD -- 11/10/2006, 12:31:53 -- #30945 | |
| On the second CD there are two that I think are beauts: Jitterbug Waltz Mr Freddie Blues He cuts down on the waterfall arpeggios in the first and his friends suddenly seem to hush and listen, and in the second there are no waterfalls, pure blues. Not sure about the recording quality which makes the piano sound harsh at times. They were done in 1950 at a friends house, but still with an audience. The only truly relaxed recordings of him 'after hours' that I have are on the album 'God is in the House'. Andy | |
| jaledin -- 11/10/2006, 12:53:17 -- #30945 | |
| Any idea what the name of that set of "unoffical" live Tatum material is called or what the label is? I don't have very much of the European-label and live material in my collection -- I'm sure it's all astounding, just like everything else he did. | |
| Scot -- 11/10/2006, 13:08:13 -- #30945 | |
| The arpegiated runs are what initially turned me off to Tatum for many years. A couple years ago I listened to him again and somehow was really able to see the big picture, his embellishments included. See, with his playing, you need to step back away from the technique. Look at the shape of his songs, the harmonies, and see that the embellishments are there as more of a sign of the times regarding jazz piano rather than an integral part of the music. They are integral to the music, but not just as embellishments... more as a way to highlight various harmonies and colors. When I listen to Tatum now I hear a theme and variation after variation of the theme afterwards. I hear amazing harmonies in those variations, I'm looking at the ideas of what he's doing and not the details. | |
| Whacky -- 11/10/2006, 13:19:35 -- #30945 | |
| I think most folks miss the point the first few times they hear him - I know I did...there's just so much going on that the average newbie listener can't absorb it all and feel it as music...but then....oh man! this guy's amazing!! Those seemingly random cadenza-like arpeggios are actually in time and part of the tune! mind boggling... | |
| Whacky -- 11/10/2006, 13:19:54 -- #30945 | |
| not to mention the harmonic genius... | |
| Styles -- 11/10/2006, 13:35:16 -- #30945 | |
| Theme and variation...yep yep... But the amazing thing is he isn't just improvising licks over the changes... he improvises the whole song: chords, melody, song structure like he is a whole jazz orchestra in one person... and that just isn't right...lol | |
| nate_smith -- 11/10/2006, 14:11:08 -- #30945 | |
| While i appreciate Art Tatum and his affect on jazz. I would like to point out that we should move forward as musicians. And encourage the promising musicians of tomorrow. Art Tatum will always and forever be a god of the keys, but don't forget. The newbies that are trying to make a living playing jazz. | |
| wutrain -- 11/11/2006, 06:05:44 -- #30945 | |
| i totally agree with you guys about tatum. i didn't even know he was improvising... didn't think it was possible. figured he wrote it and then played. and ive never seen a jazz pianist play even close to his speed... if anyone can tell me. like if it werent for him i probably wouldnt have gotten into jazz.. because as much as i like it id like to play it fast. and if he could do it... well then at least i know its possible :) | |
| YourMove -- 11/11/2006, 06:32:03 -- #30945 | |
| Either CD 2 is better in regard of having not too many arpeggios or my ears adjusted :) @jaledin The double CD set is called: 20th Century Piano Genius Lable: VERVE Records @AndyD Yep, those are great, will check out the God is in the house CD later. | |
| jaledin -- 11/11/2006, 11:58:06 -- #30945 | |
| Thanks, YourMove -- I'm pretty sure I've already heard the Verve material. I was looking for the houseparty-type stuff Scot was talking about...is it the same? Wutrain -- there's no real evidence that Tatum *didn't* pre-plan a lot of the flashier runs. Pretty much all these guys with prodigious technique did just that -- check out the Clifford Brown practice tapes for another perspective on the same type of thing, transposed to a different instrument. | |
| AndyD -- 11/11/2006, 12:55:45 -- #30945 | |
| Wutrain, if you like fast, try Moonglow off the Pablo Complete Masterpieces: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tatum-Solo-Masterpieces-Vol-1/dp/B000000XNA/sr=8-7/qid=1163277285/ref=sr_1_7/202-8437665-9859015?ie=UTF8&s=music This is transcribed if you fancy your chances (search Amazon for the sheet music). I play the first page or so and give up. The tune is only 3 minutes long, but the sheet music is long, in parts two bars complete one line, there are so many notes. jaledin, I seem to vaguely recall something from Sweden, and newly discovered material from an old radio broadcast? I do not have them. Nate_Smith I know what you’re saying. I just try to pick up bits from the greats in my amateurish way. If Tatum heard me playing his music note for note he’d walk away bored. On the other hand imagine the reaction if you played him, for example, an Evans composition. YourMove There’s a later version of the Jitterbug Waltz here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Tatum-Solo-Masterpieces-Three/dp/B000000XNC/sr=8-4/qid=1163277406/ref=sr_1_4/202-8437665-9859015?ie=UTF8&s=music which is available transcribed (it’s very similar to the one on 20th C piano genius) and is slow enough to be playable. Off the album – God is in the House, Fine and Dandy (clip here) http://www.amazon.co.uk/God-House-Art-Tatum/dp/B000009DHG/sr=8-2/qid=1163276887/ref=sr_1_2/202-8437665-9859015?ie=UTF8&s=music is also transcribed and deservedly so. One of the finest pieces of jazz I’ve heard, recorded after hours at Reubans, with the owner himself on whiskbrooms. I must teach my daughters to play whiskbrooms on newspaper (wink). Off to do some rather delayed playing Regards Andy | |
| wutrain -- 11/12/2006, 06:48:51 -- #30945 | |
| sweet. i'll dig around and give it a go! | |
| Scot -- 11/12/2006, 10:09:30 -- #30945 | |
| nate_smith- It's important to know where the road ends before you can move forward. That means analyzing and studying Tatum, Joplin, Hines, Powell, Monk, and all the rest. If you don't know what those and other guys did to define the kind of music we play, how can you expand on it? And this is all irrelevant when talking about Tatum because his playing is STILL as or more advanced than anyone who plays the piano. Regardless if he died fifty years ago, that doesn't mean you stop studying him. Do artists stop studying Monet? Do they stop studying Rembrandt, DaVinci, and all the others? No, they never stop studying the masters because in art and science, and most of life in general, the ideas the masters put together are just as relevant now as they were fifty years ago, a hundred years ago, or more depending on what kind of art or science you're looking for. Do we not study Newton? Ohm? Einstein? Of course we do, every beginning physics student learns about Ohm's Law and E=mc2. Every jazz piano student needs to understand and know and be able to discuss what the greats have done before the student can even comprehend moving "forward". | |
| rewsnat -- 11/12/2006, 10:26:43 -- #30945 | |
| one important aspect of jazz improvisation is to produce a singable melody. Does anyone of u find tatum's lines singable?? | |
| YourMove -- 11/12/2006, 11:20:56 -- #30945 | |
| may'abcdefghijklmnopq be'hijklmnopqrstuvw............. (get it?) | |
| rewsnat -- 11/12/2006, 12:19:41 -- #30945 | |
| hahaha... nice one, your move | |
| Barry -- 11/12/2006, 13:07:06 -- #30945 | |
| rewsnat, I wouldn't agree that producing a singable melody is an important aspect of jazz improvisation. Are all of John Coltrane's late improvisations singable melodies? How about Ornette Coleman's? The way I see it, the voice is an instrument, the same as any other. This means that it has it's own technical idiosyncracies, abilities and limitations as any other. If I were to play a run of 32nd notes on an uptempo tune in biggish intervals through three octaves - something on a piano like C - F - Bb ascending, this is something that's relatively easy for our instrument. However, on something like a violin or a trombone, it may be much harder, perhaps even impossible at such speeds. Is there any value in suggesting that I should only play something these instruments can copy? To my mind, such a requirement would be nonsensical and I don't think it makes any more sense to require a voice to be able do that. What about drum solos? Should Buddy rich have only played rhythms that could be copied with vocalese? I'm not sure even someone like Bobby McFerrin could do that! I personally don't think there's any valid reason for requiring a voice to be able to duplicate instrumental improvisation. Obviously, people have differing definitions of what jazz and jazz improvisation consists of but 'producing a singeable melody' would not be part of my definition of either. Just my thoughts... | |
| wutrain -- 11/12/2006, 15:01:42 -- #30945 | |
| i agree with uh. barry. you dont have to be able to sing a song to enjoy it. | |
| rewsnat -- 11/12/2006, 23:37:53 -- #30945 | |
| of cz there isn't any definite way to say whether a piece of music sounds nice or not.. but to my opinion.... whenever we produce a singable melody.. the result TENDS to be more pleasing to the ears..so this is more to a guideline than a rule... of cz u can play a string of 32nd notes based on big intervals.... u can... most of the pianist on this site can.... but would they really go and do it while improvising??? if not.... y not?? oso just my thoughts here. maybe some of the gurus on this site might contribute their thoughts on this subject.. and shed some light ?? | |
| AndyD -- 11/13/2006, 02:22:30 -- #30945 | |
| One of the criticisms occasionally levelled at Tatum was that he followed the melody too closely. For me, his complex rhythms and harmonies were such that I need a bit of melody to keep up; especially his 1950-period recordings take some concentrated listening to fully appreciate & understand,ie. some 'work' is involved before they become enjoyable. Andy | |
| Barry -- 11/13/2006, 12:30:10 -- #30945 | |
| 'the result TENDS to be more pleasing to the ears..so this is more to a guideline than a rule...' This begs the question - to whose ears? Mozart is full of singable melody and I love him dearly. However, I also love Stravinsky and you don't get nearly as much melody from him! I don't find one more pleasing to the ears than the other - just different. However, I know what you're saying rewsnat and I get what you mean. Certainly to a layman or an uneducated listener, stuff that's full of singable melody is certainly much more accessible, consonant and easier to comprehend. All I was saying was that I'm not sure that it should included in definitions of what makes a good jazz improvisation. I agree that producing singable melodies may be a good goal for beginning students but I don't think it's something that you should apply beyond that. | |
| rewsnat -- 11/13/2006, 12:57:19 -- #30945 | |
| thanx for sharing your thoughts, barry. But for now, i still hv to master my single-note lines until something resembling chick corea's solos, b4 i really move on to unsingable melodies.......... | |
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