| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: How can I make the best of my practice time? | |
| knotty -- 11/07/2006, 11:49:45 -- #30994 | |
| Hi all, I would like to ask the pros out there a few questions on how I can improve my daily routine. First, I want to apologize for the lengthy email. Second, I realize my questions are somewhat vague. I think that's because all this is still new to me, and I'm really looking for constructive discussion. I attended to the conservatory for a couple of years when I was 10 or so. I played the clarinet. I hated the lessons as a kid. I can somehow read music as long as i don't have to sight read. I've messed with the piano on and off for years -- until I recently decided to get serious. I am seriously considering private lessons (I'm in NW DC if anyone has recommendations), although the finances are a little tight this year. I have been able to practice at least 1 hour a day every day (except when traveling) for the last 4 months. Time is not an issue for me, I could find 4 hours / day if needed. Motivation and energy are the issue. It's hard to find the energy to play scales after a full day at work. I think I have made a lot of progress, although I'm not nearly at the point where I can entertain a crowd. So here's how I spend my time. 1) When I can, I try to play major scales in the morning before going to work. That's not always possible, but I find for me it works well because I don't mind at all. I play only major scales for now, and I'm still struggling with them. I play all 12. The 'easy' ones to me are C-D-G-F-A-E and I can play those quite accurately at 80. (2/2 quarter notes) For the 'hard' ones, I step down to 70 or even 65. I call them hard because my fingers have a tendency to slip from the black keys. That takes 25 minutes or so. 2)The second thing I do is play a few Hanon exercises. A pro told me once that those were great for developing strength in all fingers. I have been playing only the first 6 for now usually @80-90. I do this for 5 to 10 minutes. 3)The next thing I do is play ii-V-I exercises with various voicings. For this, I follow the Mike Levine piano book. I'm now on chapter 5. I find this book absolutely awesome, but basically, I practice shell voicing following the circle of 5th. I start on C with 3-7 voicing. Then I start all over on C with 7-3 voicing. I made good progress on this, although I don't move up the circle quite as easily as I wish I did. That takes about 10 minutes 4)Next, I play ii-V-I with 3-5-7 / 7-9b-3 / 9-3-5-7 voicing. I spend more time on this because it's newer to me. I try to start from random key rather than always from C. 5)Finally, with whatever time I have left, I practice tunes using Mike Levine's tips. It's been challenging enough so far, and I enjoy it, although progress is very slow. What I like is being able to come up with 'my own' version (if I may) rather than reading sheets. I've worked mostly on 'All the things you Are' and 'Tune up' so far. I have several questions. 1)Do you think this is a good use of my time? Given my level, are there things you think are more important than what I do? From what I read here and there, there are a lot of required basic skills, but knowing where to really start is not easy. 2)Are there tips on how to practice away from the keyboard. I hear muscle memory can be developed as much as 50% by mental training. Sounds silly but, can I practice on my way to work? 3)I mentioned earlier it's somewhat difficult to find the energy to practice after a day at work. Any tips on how to start with simple warm up exercises? I know for example starting with scales or Hanon doesn't seem to work past 10pm. 4)Levine's book recommends several tunes at the end of each chapter. Some I find particularly tough (like Giant Steps). Those are 'suggested' tunes to work on. Should I make an effort to learn all of those with the given voicing exercise, or do you think working on the 4-5 tunes I enjoy is good enough for me to move on to the next chapter? 5)More generally, when should I consider myself ready for the next chapter? 6)Even more generally, are there tips on how to set goals that are satisfying, yet challenging? Without skipping steps. I know a teacher would really help there, and I am considering it. 7)Are there questions I should ask a teacher before I commit? I have a logical mind, but very poor memory. I need to understand the things I do in life. Same in music, I find boring remembering a series of notes. But understanding voicing and reharmonization is extremely fun to me. So I would not want to end up with a teacher that tells me I must learn Chopin. Even if that teacher is right. Thanks so much in advance! | |
| CynBad -- 11/07/2006, 14:27:01 -- #30994 | |
| You said that your problem was not time, but motivation. I see that you are practicing mainly exercises and practical theory. While important, these things can be boring, and they are not the reason we play music. I would suggest you devote more of your practice time to actually learning TUNES that you want to play. You can practice all of your skills within the context of a tune. Any extra time you have could be spent on drills, scales, Levine, etc. Try not to get locked into some method book. Use it more as a reference for learning your chosen tunes! I believe this approach would be a lot more motivating and fun for you. | |
| jazzwee -- 11/07/2006, 22:57:29 -- #30994 | |
| I agree with Cynbad. This is not a practice plan that I would describe as motivating. Three years from now, you'll be an expert at all these scales but you still wouldn't know any tunes. I definitely would not spend hours and scales and hanon. I would personally bias my time towards tunes at a ratio of 3/1 (1 being technical exercises). It sounds to me like you really need a teacher. Doing mindless scales will not help if you don't know what to look for in technique in such. I hereby prescribe "Autumn Leaves" to you. Work on it for the next six months and apply every aspect of theory to it (voicings, improvisation, rhythm, swing). | |
| jmderay -- 11/08/2006, 01:59:54 -- #30994 | |
| My 2 cents, as I was stricly in the same position than you some months ago. What helped me much : - Mark Levine's book, as you wrote. - Tips on that site (begin with Scot's tips in these rooms ("the basics", "simple blues", "advanced blues", "reharmonization 101"). - Alberto's Files in ALBETAN'S AREA room (download from there .mus files opened with a software called FINALE NOTEPAD freely donwloadable on the net), especially the file "A & B Form of voicings", so you can begin to get jazzy voicings, but don't neglect the other files, very helpful). - Get tips in all rooms of that site (especially "personnal rooms" from pros sharing their experience here). - Get a scale Syllabus (for instance : http://www.jazzbooks.com/miva/documents/scale_syllabus.pdf ), and instead of playing ALL the scales everyday, choose one (major, minor, Dom 7th ..) and play it in its different forms (scale name column) so it will be helpful to understand what's going on with improvisations (these scales are classified from "playing in" to "playing out"...if you know what I mean). - use the fact that you know how to read staff to learn jazzy voicings : you should get at your public library or buy some books with written music reharmonized for jazz (Beatles for jazz, or what ever) playing everyday from these books, you'll learn new voicings every day, even if you don't learn the whole piece, get a part (2 or 3 lines with some 2-5-1 on them), and learn these 2-5-1 and (new) voicings this way ... try all that in 4-5 keys you like ... - as written before, begin to learn jazz standards (Autumn leaves, Fly me to the moon, well, pretty simple tunes basically, but you can focus on how to reharmonize them ..). - and the most important, play everyday (as I read somewhere, if you don't practice one day, nobody remarks it, if you don't during 2 days, you'll remark it, 3 days, your friends will notice it, ans 4 days, everyone would remark it :))) Hope this helps a bit. Let's do it, friend ! | |
| Brotherdavies -- 11/08/2006, 08:51:13 -- #30994 | |
| I have been worrying that I spend TOO MUCH of my practice time enjoying myself by playing songs. I beat myself up for not running through those 'boring' exercises! But I am playing music that people like to listen to and it is sounding jazzy! I am using Levine more as a reference now along with Albertans great guides and 7's tips and insights. One thing I think is helping me is by playing those Major Scales before I head off to work. It seems so obvious, but familiarity with the major scales really helps with chord voicings and improvisation. I think major scale with major chord, flat the 7th and you are playing mixolydian (play the matching dominant 7 chord), flat the third and you are in Dorian (play the matching minor 7th chord). Against the dominant 7th you can play any of the altered notes. So, keep playing those major scales before work! | |
| jmkarns -- 11/08/2006, 10:55:57 -- #30994 | |
| I find that as I practice tunes, problems crop up, OR when I am listenting to the greats (another form of practicing) I hear something that challenges my level of playing. That is when I turn to the above mentioned references to find answers. The value of a teacher is that they listen to you in real time, and hopefully can offer objective, constructive criticism. | |
| 7 -- 11/08/2006, 21:50:25 -- #30994 | |
| Brotherdavies, Thx for the honorable mention! | |
| knotty -- 11/09/2006, 07:31:02 -- #30994 | |
| Thank you all so much for the feedback. There's a lot to think about here. I will take brotherdavies' advice and start doing those scales in the morning. Exercise don't bother me that much at all. I'll reserve 20 minutes for Scales + Hanon. The reason I play scales is because everywhere I read, every book, every tutorial, including those on this website (they are the best online lessons in my view) start with "you must know all the major scales". It's not always clear what is meant by 'know'. I read 'Jazzology', an awesome read if I've ever seen one, and in the how to practice chapter, the author mentions a story with his student, where the student refuses to practice scales because he 'knows' them. You all agree on one thing, have fun playing tunes. So I will do just that. Autumn Leaves is a great example, one of my favorite tunes to play. I thought about these comments all week, and asked myself: Why don't I play more tunes? I think the reason is it's intimidating. That's why I enjoy the Levine's so much, because it breaks it down to the point that I can tell “Sure, I can do that”. Now here's another question. Is it worth trying to play Autumn Leaves in all keys? | |
| jazzwee -- 11/09/2006, 10:47:56 -- #30994 | |
| When I mentioned Autumn Leaves, I was really suggesting that you tear it apart beyond just 'performing' the tune. Yes, if you can play and improvise Autumn Leaves in all keys, you will have just practiced how to improvise in ii-V-I in major and minor keys. Thus when you encounter tunes, you will find that you will be so familiar with the structure. Autumn Leaves is structured to use a single scale (common keys for this tune being G and Bb). But it uses a major ii-V-I and then the minor iidim7b5 V7b9 im all in the same scale. So there's a lot to learn in this one tune. It might take you years to master Autumn Leaves. But then you will have automatically mastered most tunes with functional harmony (i.e. non modal jazz). I would also pay separate attention to Blues, and focus on the jazz form of the Blues (some examples in the Blues room). The combination of Autumn Leaves and Blues is killer. Now simply doing an 'Improv' is not all that simple right? Knowing isn't the full story. So I would say that 50% of your education will have to come from listening to all the players you like and trying to emulate them (i.e. transcription, written or otherwise). Beyond all this, I still think a teacher will be key. Although it is possible to learn by yourself, time is reduced significantly and you are more motivated with a teacher. There are things that just can't be explained in books too well. How does one explain swing? | |
| jwv76 -- 11/09/2006, 13:10:32 -- #30994 | |
| common keys for this tune being G and Bb I assume you're talking major, although personally I find it a lot easier to think of the whole tune as being in minor, E minor and G minor being the common keys. I definately agree with your prescription, some time ago I made a commitment to myself to get over my phobia of playing in keys with more than two black keys. Autumn Leaves was the tune I used as a vehichle, it was a lot easier to stay focused on a tune then to just practice isolated ii-Vs. When I would pick a new key and I would be trying to think of what the first chord is it made more sense to think of it as staring on iv, and the rest of the progression then flowed naturally, as opposed to a two step mental process of thinking of it as starting in major and then modulating to minor. Anyway, just my 2 cents. | |
| savage -- 11/09/2006, 14:05:58 -- #30994 | |
| A great tune for practicing "Autumn Leaves"-type changes in all keys is "Comrade Conrad" by Bill Evans. | |
| jazzwee -- 11/09/2006, 20:15:11 -- #30994 | |
| re: "common keys for this tune being G and Bb" Hi jwv76, this is just to clarify for knotty. Of course the tune is in two keys: G/Em or Bb/Gm (or the major and its relative minor). But I was making a subtle point that the tune could be played using different modes of the major key, thus making it simple for the beginner (this ignores alterations for the moment). So the "G/Em" version can just be played just knowing the G scale. Thus, if one learns this tune in 12 keys, you've practiced not only major but also minor ii-V-I's. That would be quite an accomplishment. jwv76, The major chord more easily identifies the improvisation scale for me so that's why I think of the major chord. The minor key chord is actually not the first chord played but the last. So the G version of Autumn Leaves starts with Am7 and ends with Em7 (the minor key). My problem with practicing isolated ii-V-I's is that you don't have any ideas to start from. In the case of Autumn Leaves, there's always the melody. So in every key, if one just starts off with the melody and chord tones, you've got a starting point for ideas. I personally started learning on Autumn Leaves myself, just as I described, just like you jwv76. | |
| Brotherdavies -- 11/10/2006, 07:30:35 -- #30994 | |
| I play Autumn leaves and I know I am in E minor but I think about the G Major scale. It is magic. I can play the 'easy' G major scale but create beautiful and dramatic minor sounds! I do alter notes here and there but this way of thinking major scale for minor sounds is something I do on lots of tunes (including Summertime). I will now learn Autumn leaves in all keys. (I now only have E and B phobia to overcome!). Bro' | |
| jazzwee -- 11/10/2006, 09:21:33 -- #30994 | |
| Hey Bro, the quickest way for me to overcome E and B was to play Chick Corea stuff (like Windows). Chick loved E, B, F#. I need to overcome it some more though as I don't do it often enough. | |
| knotty -- 11/10/2006, 10:05:54 -- #30994 | |
| well, good news. The Wash DC conservatory of Music which is located close by my house offers Jazz piano lessons. And my wife approved it :) Couple questions: They write they require accoustic piano. I have yamaha ypg 625, that's 88 hammer weighted keys. I would think it's good enough for me. Right? I tried Autumn Leaves with the new tips you guys gave me, it worked pretty well in Bb. I have a few questions about the tune. It starts like this: Cm7 F7 BbM7 EbM7 now the first 3 chords represent a regular ii-V-I, so I can apply my fancy voicings. What's the function of EbM7? Here's how I played the first 4 chords. LH: play the root RH: voice the melody on top, so Cm7 (5 - 7 - 3) F7 ( 7 - 9b - 3) BbM7 (5 - 7 - 9 - 3) EbM7 (7 - 3) (LH : 1 - 5) Final question: I tried in other keys. That was quite a challenge. I didn't write the melody or chords down? Should I? Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I'm very excited about starting with a teacher. | |
| jazzwee -- 11/11/2006, 00:12:34 -- #30994 | |
| Let's review Cm7-F7-BbM7 = ii-V-I BbM7 = IV (pivot chord to lead to next sequence) Am7b5-D7b9-Gm7 = ii(m7b5) - V(7b9) - i(m7) (or a minor 2-5-1). So the IV chord is a connector between the two different 2-5-1's. But this can also be presented a little differently for improv analysis: It can also be thought of as: ii-V-I IV vii-III7-vi which are just all the scale degrees of a single scale, which works here because the minor key is a relative minor of the major scale. This is why one major scale works. Note though that the iii is modified to be a dominant instead of being a iii (minor). You should write the chords down so you begin to memorize the ii-V-I chords in major and minor. You can write the melody down if you like but that's not as important as long as you memorize it. Go to the 7's website (www.jeff-brent.com) and look for the rootless voicings there, summarized. It's the same one in Levine's book, but Levine's explanation is kind of long for something simple. 7's explanation is more to the point. A Yamaha 625 is ok for starters. When you get serious, you may want to invest in a real piano. The Yamaha 625 has lighter keys (compared to let's say a P120), so you might get a little problem with the adjustment. | |
| jwv76 -- 11/11/2006, 12:41:43 -- #30994 | |
| Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but if you think of the tune as being in minor, you eliminate the need to think of the BbM7 as a "pivot chord." I agree that for the purpose of improvisation it is probably easier to think of the major scale, it would be weird to think of your self as improvising over Cm7-F7 using a G natural minor scale, but for the purpose of transposing from one key to another if you relate the chords to minor it makes for a smoother analysis. In major the analysis for the first eight bars would be: ii-V7-I-IV-iim7b5/vi-V7/vi-vi In minor it's: iv-V7/III-III-VI-iim7b5-V7-i In minor there is one less "/" and you end on a 1 chord. Also remember that in ninety something percent of tunes the key signature is determined by the last chord of the tune, not the first tonal center. Knotty, I would suggest that instead of writing out the chords, write out an analysis of the tune, like the ones above, whichever one seems easier to grasp, and also an analysis of the rest of the tune. Then if you can, try to apply the analysis to different keys, without writing it out. If you get stuck or can't remember the chords then go ahead and write them out, but try it first without writing them down, you'll develop a better appreciation for the structure of the tune. Good luck | |
| jwv76 -- 11/11/2006, 13:29:45 -- #30994 | |
| Also I might point out (geez, isn't that horse dead yet?) that when I've played with groups and someone calls out autumn leaves they almost always relate it to minor, so I have always assumed that it was common practice to do so. Most bass players I know will get somewhat irate if you call out "Autumn leaves in G" when you mean E minor, especially if they end up playing a C on the first chord while you're playing A minor. | |
| pphilip -- 11/11/2006, 14:40:03 -- #30994 | |
| It is e minor especially if you play the intro, which is usually only played by cabaret folk and French singers. Check out the last chord if there is any doubt. | |
| wutrain -- 11/11/2006, 14:44:47 -- #30994 | |
| wait... when you mean an analysis of the tune, do you mean of the chord structure like I-V-I and whatnot? | |
| jwv76 -- 11/11/2006, 17:15:39 -- #30994 | |
| an analysis of the chord progression is what I meant, yes, I suppose you could do an analysis of the melody also. | |
| wutrain -- 11/12/2006, 06:27:43 -- #30994 | |
| cool cool. since this thread was about making the best out of your practice time and all... i was wondering what you thought of the thing where you improvise and try to sing the note you plan to play before you play it, so you're working on hitting the notes that you're thinking of. and then add comping to that. | |
| knotty -- 11/13/2006, 11:48:38 -- #30994 | |
| here's a quick question. The person who teaches jazz-piano at the conservatory is a bass player. What do you guys think about that ? | |
| pphilip -- 11/13/2006, 14:19:00 -- #30994 | |
| Usually bass players are theory fanatics and frustrated pianists. | |
| Whacky -- 11/13/2006, 15:02:01 -- #30994 | |
| :) | |
| pphilip -- 11/13/2006, 16:28:56 -- #30994 | |
| Nice to see you back! | |
| wutrain -- 11/13/2006, 16:57:55 -- #30994 | |
| lol... ive always wondered. whats with the trend of pianists who play electric bass? theres so many! | |
| wutrain -- 11/13/2006, 17:25:02 -- #30994 | |
| and could someone tell me if the "improvise and try to sing the note you plan to play before you play it, so you're working on hitting the notes that you're thinking of. and then add comping to that." is useful? i hate double posting... i wisht here was an edit button. | |
| jwv76 -- 11/13/2006, 17:55:21 -- #30994 | |
| I think it is a very useful skill to be able to sing something and then play it on the piano, whenever I transcribe off of recordings I always try to sing what I'm hearing first before I try and play it. However I would be careful about getting in the habit of singing while improvising. Many players get into this habit and it is extremely hard for them to break. Bud Powell and Keith Jarrett are two players who come to mind. Of course, I'm nobody to criticize either of these two greats methods, but with Bud Powell you listen to some of his recordings and you here this sort of grunting in the background, at first you don't realize it's Bud trying to sing along with what he's playing. Keith's singing gets a little distracting when he plays high notes, his voice gets a little stretched and out of tune. I've heard that for many players once they get in the habit of singing while improvising, they do it unconsciously, even when they try to stop they'll start doing it again without realizing it. | |
| cflat -- 11/14/2006, 08:05:40 -- #30994 | |
| Knotty, I'm in Silver Spring, and may also be looking for a teacher. I'd be interested to know you're impressions of the DC Conservatory once you've had a few sessions. Also, whats the cost like? Thanks Cflat | |
| knotty -- 11/14/2006, 11:06:41 -- #30994 | |
| Hey CFlat, I will let you know for sure. Tell me if there's a better to reach you than thru here. here's the link to the school. http://www.washingtonconservatory.com/ Looks like $1000 give or take for 17 1 hour lessons. Sounds about right to me (hell it's cheaper than hiring someone to clean my gutter). They are quite slow to respond to emails. Also, looks like this particular teacher has a school in College Park, which may be more convenient for you. Like I said, he is a bass player, but as long as he's a good teacher, I'll be happy. http://www.joshuabayer.com/ I found a guy on this site also who teaches in a school down on Georgia Ave. A bit far for me, but I'm still considering as an alternative. He's a keyboardist. The website's ugly, but looks like very good credentials. It's here: http://www.sewellmusic.org/sewpage3.htm At this point, I'm absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of info I can find. So I'm really eager to find a teacher / coach to help me sort it out and tell me what's best for me. Let me know what you find or if you hear anything about a good teacher in the area. Cheers, Knotty. | |
| cflat -- 11/14/2006, 13:35:22 -- #30994 | |
| Knotty, Thanks for the info. I'll check them out. I did a little searching earlier in the year, and found something at Montgomery College. I'll have to look at that again to see how it compares to the DC conservatory (I'm mostly doing this for my own enjoyment...not sure I want to spend a grand on it). Cflat | |
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