| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Arabian Sound | |
| Gordon -- 12/10/2006, 07:56:33 -- #31623 | |
| I have been asked to play for half an hour or so at an Arabian themed party. I always love playing "The Sheik Of Araby" so they're getting that. Any other ideas for tunes ? I'm stuck. (I can't read well enough to play Debussy's Arabesque) I also know a scale that sounds a bit eastern > C Db Eb E F F# G Ab Bb B C Are there any others like this that may help me ? | |
| jaledin -- 12/10/2006, 10:14:15 -- #31623 | |
| I think there's only one chromatic scale -- isn't that the one you listed? Oh, wait, I see there are a whopping two notes *not* included in your scale. Harmonic minor scale? Not traditionally used in Western music as a melodic source, but used more than any other minor flavor in bebop and the augmented second interval sounds so removed from most Western art music that it might work. | |
| 7 -- 12/10/2006, 10:24:48 -- #31623 | |
| "Arabian" 1 2 3 4 b5 b6 b7 8 "Double Harmonic" 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7 8 "Egyptian" 1 2 4 5 b7 8 "Hungarian Gypsy" 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 b7 8 "Hungarian Major" 1 #2 3 #4 5 6 b7 8 "Hungarian Minor" 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7 8 "Oriental" 1 b2 3 4 b5 6 b7 8 "Persian" 1 b2 3 4 b5 b6 7 8 "Spanish Phrygian" 1 b2 b3 3 4 5 b6 b7 8 | |
| sid -- 12/10/2006, 15:13:29 -- #31623 | |
| Just off the top of my head: Nardis (by Bill Evans or Miles Davis - there's dispute about who composed it) In a Turkish Bath (Don Ellis) It must be a camel (Zappa - also there's Sheik Yerbouti I suppose) Midnight at the oasis (David Nichtern) You might find some other ideas here: http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-songs-whose-title-includes-geographical-names#wp-Other_languages sid | |
| flapjack -- 12/10/2006, 15:52:00 -- #31623 | |
| Caravan A Night In Tunisia (Yes I know it's really in Africa but it is a great song) | |
| CynBad -- 12/10/2006, 16:00:44 -- #31623 | |
| The harmonic minor scale is indeed used heavily in western music. It is the minor scale practiced millions of times daily by students of western classical music. For an "eastern" sounding scale, I always found the Phrygian mode to be good. I think it sounds like Spanish Gypsy music or the Middle East. The scale Gordon first posted looks like a diminished scale. | |
| Rid -- 12/10/2006, 17:32:45 -- #31623 | |
| 1. Listen to Desmond/Brubeck recording of "Le Souk". 2. Figure out what those guys were doing. 3. Learn to do it yourself. 4. (You knew I had an agenda, didn't you?) Explain it to me, please! Ed | |
| jaledin -- 12/10/2006, 21:22:13 -- #31623 | |
| The harmonic minor scale is not traditionally a melodic source in Western art music of the common practice period. If it is or has been, I'd like to know some important examples for my own edification. It's essentially a synthetic scale which was invented not to provide melodic content, but to produce the leading tone required for authentic cadence in a minor key, not the basis of a tonality. That the leading tone appears -- by necessity -- in minor-key works which have as their basis a minor (not harmonic) tonality doesn't have very much to do with the scale-as-source at all. | |
| CynBad -- 12/10/2006, 21:25:00 -- #31623 | |
| Jaledin, then why do we practice the Harmonic Minor scale constantly in classical music? Because it is all over the place in Beethoven, Chopin, etc. | |
| jaledin -- 12/11/2006, 10:19:46 -- #31623 | |
| People practice the harmonic minor scale because it's the only minor scale (besides the melodic minor) which provides the leading tone necessary for the authentic cadence -- in other words, the primary means of establishing tonality in Western music (V7-i). I could be wrong, but I'm just suggesting that it's not as important for the construction of *melodies* as the other minor scales, historically. Where the leading tone occurs in melodic phrases, in, say, Bach (as it certainly does), I wouldn't tend to think "Bach is using the harmonic minor scale as the source of his notes." If you have a different theory, I wouldn't mind hearing it. But, as a matter of record, I've never before heard it claimed that the harmonic minor scale's usefulness is *primarily* because of the melodies which can be made from it. For one thing, the augmented second is notoriously difficult for people to sing. When played as such, as well, it tends to sound a bit non-Western as well. Not a problem if you just want the leading tone, but for a melodic phrase to be said to be drawn from the harmonic minor scale, I'd need to hear not only the leading tone, but the b6 as well at some point. Otherwise, it would make just as much sense to call the melody a derivation of melodic minor scale. | |
| JohnDennis -- 12/11/2006, 11:32:21 -- #31623 | |
| I have never really understood the purpose of all the different minor scales but I found an interesting article on the subject here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_minor_scale However, after reading it I still think there is no definitive answer to the problem. It seems to be just a case of doing what sounds right to you. | |
| jaledin -- 12/11/2006, 13:03:36 -- #31623 | |
| If I remember correctly, Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony has a brilliant and unorthodox discussion of harmonic minor. I'll have to look it up, but he may be driving at something more along the lines of what CynBad's talking about. If you like music theory with plenty of wicked humor in it, the Schoenberg is a fantastic book. I didn't get a lot out of the wikipedia article, although I appreciate you including the link to it -- one would think the wiki "people" (i.e., everyday people with too much time on their hands and a yen for explaining various stuff) would have bulked up the article a bit with more detailed explanation. Well, there's no reason anybody couldn't edit/expand the article. I'm still curious as to which pieces of -- was it Chopin and Beethoven -- specifically use harmonic minor as a melodic source. As I said, I could be completely off my rocker, but my understanding of the scale is the only one I've encountered until now (that is, predominantly a clever way to combine natural minor with leading tone, as basis for tonality). | |
| SolArt -- 12/12/2006, 04:01:49 -- #31623 | |
| A harmonic scale starting on the 5 works for me. | |
| Gordon -- 12/12/2006, 04:51:29 -- #31623 | |
| Thanks very much for all the info - much appreciated | |
| paulF99 -- 12/12/2006, 13:51:51 -- #31623 | |
| Just like to add something I was messing around with last week. Called "Phrygian Major" or "Spanish Gypsy", it sounds more like Middle-Eastern: 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7 8 | |
| jwv76 -- 12/12/2006, 13:52:05 -- #31623 | |
| I don't know about examples from classical music, but I use the harmonic minor all the time, especially over V7 in minor, like F harm minor over C7b9. The Db is both a leading tone and a chord tone. | |
| paulF99 -- 12/12/2006, 14:16:13 -- #31623 | |
| Should add that Phrygian Major is the same as SolArt's harmonic minor scale starting on 5 | |
| jmkarns -- 12/13/2006, 07:30:32 -- #31623 | |
| "In A Persian Marketplace" by Katchatourian? There's jazz versions of this one I am sure. | |
| JHMurray -- 12/14/2006, 16:04:52 -- #31623 | |
| On Keith Jarrett's Whisper Not CD, he makes good use of the double harmonic on "What Is This Thing Called Love". At the end they groove on that mode for some time. Sounds very Mid-eastern. | |
| Jazz+ -- 12/23/2006, 21:07:11 -- #31623 | |
| The "Snake Charmer's Scale" C Db E F G Ab B | |
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