LearnJazzPiano.com archives: On the way...
abless -- 04/02/2004, 08:50:05 -- #3182
Hi there, I am just beginning to get a jazz pianist.
I thought of doing following things in this order and I'd appreciate it if you could just have a look at it and tell me if you agree with it:

1. Listen to jazz songs (permanently, during the whole process)
2. Learn to play the chords of every single key, that is:
   Major seven, Minor seven, Dominant, Diminished and so on.
3. Learn some scales for every key
4. After 2 and 3, should be able to comp a bit - learn that5. After being able to comp, learn to solo/improvise.
6. Go on and learn and be a jazz pianist.

What do you think, is that OK? Step 2 and 3 are really hard I bet, some really hard work. What do you think: how much time will this take, learning all chords + scales assuming that I practice every day.

Just tell me what you think :-)

abless -- 04/03/2004, 05:56:50 -- #3216
Sorry, but I just can't get it...
I find it soooo difficult to play chords that sound good. Fine, I could play C-7 just C/Eb/G/Bb but I've got to use left hand, too - and now the question is how I can get such a blues/jazz sound.
How do I know which notes to play for a given chord? I've seen some extra notes played although the chords didn't indicate it - it was cool, how do I do that?

Rick -- 04/03/2004, 06:03:55 -- #3217
sorry this post will have to be a quicky as I am dashing out, but try adding the 9th, 11th and 13th as extra tones.

I might voice a C-7 as

LH- Eb A D
RH- G C F

or something like that

Sorry, I will try and post more when I can, but  im sure by the time I get back either Whacky, 7 or smg will have beaten me to it (actually please do, you'll give a better answer than me I'm sure!)

abless -- 04/03/2004, 07:14:54 -- #3218
Thanks Rick, that's a start. By the way, is it common to have the root (in this case C) in the right hand or rather in the left hand (in the bottom of the left hand?)?

smg -- 04/03/2004, 07:24:34 -- #3220
as a reader you're going to find these questions answered just by looking at the voicings on the site,following the links,Going to Mike ,Albetan,& etc" site and seeing what's there in the files...on "360 degrees I've got a file called 'voicings'..check it out.....

abless -- 04/03/2004, 07:40:47 -- #3222
Thanks Rick, that's a start. By the way, is it common to have the root (in this case C) in the right hand or rather in the left hand (in the bottom of the left hand?)?

smg -- 04/03/2004, 08:04:05 -- #3224
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.justchords.com/theory/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dchord%2Bsubstitution%2Btheory%26start%3D30%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN

Is THIS in German????

jmjelder -- 04/03/2004, 08:19:35 -- #3226
smg,

That has got to be one of the funniest things I've read!!!

Joe

Dr. Whack -- 04/03/2004, 11:34:23 -- #3230
You may want to start with some rootless voicings...for example:

Cm7 = BbEbG  (735 - no root)if you play this vocing with your right hand, you may want to play the root (C) with your left.

now you can also add tones as Rick mentioned for example:

BbDEbG making this Cm9

and for a bit of a cluster:

BbDEbFG = Cm11

In Rick's example above, the root works because he has voiced the chord in fourths (quartal) creating a Cm 6/9  (this 6th and 9th are considered to be "added" since there is no 7th)

The good part is there are no rules...the bad part is that there are no rules:)  just listen, experiment and have fun

7 -- 04/03/2004, 15:15:03 -- #3233
`
RE: "No Rules"

There are of course "rules" to Jazz as with any musical art form.

Many of these "rules" are stylistic conventions and commonly accepted practices of each the various forms of Jazz that exist.


I'm not saying that it isn't a good thing to "push the envelope", but telling a beginner in Jazz that there are "no rules" can result in cacophonious anarchy if taken to the extreme.


Good taste and a deep knowledge of conventions are a must for any serious Jazz musician.

In order to successfully break the rules, you have to know what they are first.

7

Dr. Whack -- 04/03/2004, 16:34:44 -- #3241
as you said, there are stylistic conventions...but I maintain...there are no rules...

Rick -- 04/04/2004, 06:54:39 -- #3252
(what Whacky said)

unless you class the basic triad structure and scale theory stuff as being "rules"

This stuff can get really deep (how you define rules etc) so...

maybe some people think "learn the theory, then throw it away" ?

Paul -- 04/04/2004, 17:40:28 -- #3262
I think you have a good plan and I congratulate you on having a plan. So many people wonder aimlessly. I think working on comping before soloing is an excellent idea. I worked on comping for 3 years before I really got into the soloing thing. It will help with your groove and you'll learn the good note choices.

pianogirl -- 04/05/2004, 11:13:04 -- #3285
Every once in a while I assess my study "plan" in terms of the roles that I play as a jazz pianist.  Soloing is obviously a big part of it (whether it is solo piano or soloing within a group context).  However, I agree with Paul, comping is a big thing.  Let me restate that - a BIG thing.  :-)   Some may disagree, but I believe that being a good accompanist/sideperson as a piano player will earn you many more kudos (as well as friends and gigs) than being  the best soloist with the best chops around.

marksdg -- 04/05/2004, 15:28:00 -- #3289
It really depends on whether you are wanting to sound good by yourself first or if you want to get into a jam session with other musicians as soon as possible.  If you are wanting to sound good solo as soon as possible, work on left hand techniques (walking, stride etc.) first.  If you are wanting to do a jam session as soon as possible, learn comping well.  

Also, I recommend that when you start learning to improvise that you combine some improvisation with some memorization of parts of solos.

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