| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: jazz cliches: i once again need your help! | |
| ayolt -- 12/26/2006, 04:14:21 -- #31972 | |
| Hope you don't mind me posting another "what is he playing" topic: I am watching this video of this guy playing misty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO0jYrxyvYY&mode=related&search= When he plays the first Eb major chord... what run is he doing upward? Is it merely arpeggiating Eb majord chord tones starting on G? I hate it when i can't get this cliche sounds out of my piano!! Second of all, what run is he playing at 18/19 seconds? And how does it relate to the chord he lands on? Tnx for your help! | |
| clobaton -- 12/26/2006, 12:58:29 -- #31972 | |
| ayolt: I think the run at 18 secs is C blues scale (C,Eb,F,F#,G,Bb,C) about the 1st Eb chord, he raises the upper note, and then third time he adds a dissonance (I think it is a 4th). Im at the office so that's what I hear, hope it helps. | |
| jazzwee -- 12/26/2006, 17:25:41 -- #31972 | |
| I hate to be critical of this stuff. As others have said here before, it's probably best to listen to some of the real masters then to stuff like this on YouTube. This is good enough for cocktail piano but don't focus too much on the jazz aspects of this. Lots of arpeggiation in the melody and mostly noodling on the solo portions. Shoot for something better to emulate my friend. | |
| Scot -- 12/27/2006, 07:56:56 -- #31972 | |
| The thing to do if you want to hear great solo piano is check out the Maybeck Recital hall series. Many of them are still available and listening to them will take you to school... Also, if you go into the book reviews room, the Darius Brotman Jazz Piano Study Letter has ALL sorts of jazz piano tricks so that when you hear something interesting, such as what some people like to do with Misty (like, having the first chord a D/Eb then resolving it to EbM7), you'll easily be able to pick it out. | |
| pringe -- 12/27/2006, 12:35:26 -- #31972 | |
| pretty sure he's doing an arpeggio of Bb13b9 (D,G,Bb,Cb) in each hand, finishing on the 5th of Bb7 (F). Hope that helps. | |
| james3 -- 12/28/2006, 20:57:14 -- #31972 | |
| I agree with pringe but on the chord (Bb713b9) quality but I think he's just layering the upper structure triad on top (arpeggiating a G triad on top). Anyway, I happen to agree there is better solo piano than this but if the original poster likes this music who are we to criticize? James | |
| kaon99 -- 12/28/2006, 21:50:34 -- #31972 | |
| I agree with james3. Although I aspire to play like Bill Evans, I am much more concerned about just playing better than I do right now. I will gladly listen to ANYBODY that helps me play better. Somethimes I have found I can more easily understand lesser players' stuff than that of the masters. One step at at time. - Ken | |
| jazzwee -- 12/28/2006, 22:19:46 -- #31972 | |
| James3 said: " Anyway, I happen to agree there is better solo piano than this but if the original poster likes this music who are we to criticize?" ...because if we didn't make a comment of some sort, someone might get the impression that this kind of soloing is something to emulate. | |
| james3 -- 12/28/2006, 23:02:26 -- #31972 | |
| well Jazwee that's sort of my point. I wouldn't want to copy that guy (cause I find alot of things about his playing unrefined to my tastes) but if ayolt likes his sound and his playing then by all means he should enjoy it. Who are we to say what should be copied or not? We'll all sound like Bill Evans clones if we all only study Bill Evans. Now Bill is a legend and a great person to study...but variety is the spice of life and it definitely is the makings of great art. Some people think Chick Corea is a technical robot and others think his playing is beautiful, harmonically advanced, and super expressive. It's subjective. In addition, if you send everybody to Oscar and Tatum I think the vast majority of people won't pick up a thing...it's to advanced for the beginner or even most intermediates. | |
| james3 -- 12/28/2006, 23:05:24 -- #31972 | |
| Ok so I watched the video again and at 18/19 seconds he's doing a C blues scale....sloppily but none the less there it is in all it's glory. | |
| jazzwee -- 12/28/2006, 23:28:19 -- #31972 | |
| Hi james3, my comments are unimportant in the scheme of things so ayolt will have ignored it if it is irrelevant for him. So by all means, each person should decide the choices for himself. For me, I just think that there's so little time and a lot to learn. So even picking up a microscopic tidbit from a Bill Evans video may be more important to one's development than listening to everyone's non-masterful videos in youtube. The problem, james3, is that if you look at the comments on youtube, you'd think this guy, or anyone in any number of videos are actually really good. So a little reality dose is just to balance that out. It's amazing, from user comments, how little it takes to make that community happy. This particular guy didn't swing. He didn't project good tone. Noodling solos. Mostly chord arpeggiations. This is a jazz site so from a critical jazz look, I'd say look for some really jazzy examples. There's so many there. Doesn't have to be Oscar and Tatum. How about Keith Jarret or Miles Davis? Their solos are simple enough to follow. | |
| jazzwee -- 12/28/2006, 23:51:08 -- #31972 | |
| ...except don't look to Jarret for cliches. He probably doesn't have one. Miles though, will have a lot of cliches to copy (all his original of course). As jaledin would say, transcribe something from some great player. Those are the best source of licks and articulation and phrasing of those licks. | |
| pringe -- 12/29/2006, 04:01:02 -- #31972 | |
| Ok listened again, and James was partly right - here's the exact notes - they are all ascending, beginning on the G below middle C: LH: G, Bb, D RH: G, Bb, Cb(B), D LH: G, Bb, D RH: G, Bb, D, F It's actually a lot easier than it sounds, and if you watch closely you'll see that the Cb(b9) he plays with the RH was more than likely unintended, since he slid off the Bb with his 2nd finger, and didn't finger it seperately like you would if it were intended. Also, it is not repeated in any of the other octaves. | |
| jaledin -- 12/29/2006, 12:01:09 -- #31972 | |
| I didn't look at the vid in question, so I'm coming out of left field here, and probably I'm wrong to jump in here, but the idea of arpeggiating a Bb chord made me think of two classic examples. Both are from Bud Powell, but they're a little different. "Somewhere over the Rainbow" is one idea, and the other idea is "It Could Happen to You." It could be a good idea to just grab the notes using some kind of slow-downer. I think Sonny Clark also has a slightly different idea in the same key on "Love Walked In." I wouldn't call these ideas "cliches," though -- just part of the style. I know I'm not on topic, but my mind just saw "Bb7 arpeggio" and thought of a couple of well-known examples. | |
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