LearnJazzPiano.com archives: walking bass

ronald1 -- 12/26/2006, 11:37:45 -- #31986

I never paid much attention to practising walking bass, because it seemed too simple and too much of a cliche.  But recently, I have heard it used really effectively, and am now trying to master it. The problem I have (as Im sure most people do), is that when I try to play a non-standard (i.e. not very easy) bass line, it seriously limits my R.H improv.  Is there any tips to improvising over a walking bass? or is it just the same old hand independance problem? Thanks for the help

Barry -- 12/26/2006, 13:05:51 -- #31986

It's not really an independence problem, more of an attention problem.  The simple rhythm of walking bass means that rhythmically, there aren't really many independence issues. You're finding it difficult to improvise over this at the moment because you're having to devote too much attention to your left hand and so can't concentrate on your right. The 'trick' is to get to the stage where your left hand becomes automatic and you don't have to think about it.  Unfortunately, there's no way round it other than to practice it. Having said that, I would say that to start with, practice over a simple slow, root-fifth, two-feel bass and build from there towards faster tempo, walking fours. Also, don't be afraid to practice bass lines on their own.  Do the usual things you do when learning any other aspect of jazz - ii-V-I's, cycle of fifths, blues, rhythm changes in all keys and so on.  The goal is to be able to walk through the changes as easily as you could play chords with your LH and you have to 'burn' the patterns and techniques into your brain. Finally, I taught myself to walk bass through playing in duos and accompanying singers and I would recommend doing both as much as you can because it really shows up what you are comfortable with and what you still have to work on. Good Luck

Jazz+ -- 12/26/2006, 13:43:47 -- #31986

I second what Barry has said, he gave excellent advice. The walking pattern I recommend for ii V I in all 12 keys is | (ii) 1 2 b3 3 | (V) 1 b7 6 5 | (I) 1 2 3 4 | (I) 5 4 3 2 | It's the easiest fingering for walking ii V I (no thumb unders even required) and can be played in an easy basic five finger position

Scot -- 12/27/2006, 08:02:46 -- #31986

Oh, great topic! And a great question. What the other guys said above, plus here's a few of my observations.  The main reason you get stuck in your improv when you're walking a bass is that you don't know the bass line well enough. So, practice these two things with a metronome: 1. The bass line by itself. Play it differently every time through. 2. The improv by itself with no comping.  I prefer to do this two handed so I don't lose left hand practice in the process. See, the main problem especially with piano players is that we often rely on the chord sound in the left hand to define the harmonic color of our playing, and especially when it comes to walking bass, I hear a lot of people using that walking bass to define the time, when the time should be coming from inside. The left hand is just a manifestation of the time. So if you practice improvisation without any comping chords, you will eventually realize that either you are a master and don't need to practice, or you'll notice that it's really kind of hard to make a nice solo when you can't support it with chords. The horn players have to do it this way, but as pianists we have our chord crutches to use.  When you can rip off an amazing solo without having any chords playing, you'll have really progressed. The left hand walking bass, as others have said, when you are more comfortable with what you are playing, then your right hand can stretch out and not be constrained by the box you're building with that walking bass. So even though it's not intuitive, if you practice improv on the tune without any left hand comping, it will help you once you throw a walking bass in. Just some food for thought!

jazzwee -- 12/27/2006, 09:18:42 -- #31986

What a wonderful insight Scot! Playing without chords forces one to define the harmonic structure in the solo itself, which means the chord tones need to be there (something that's been repeated oftentimes in other threads).

ayolt -- 12/27/2006, 17:11:23 -- #31986

i am currently working on a cool rhythm changes bassline.. And was wondering how you all would do this.... Especially the bridge...!!!!??

jaledin -- 12/28/2006, 09:18:13 -- #31986

You can get a plain-vanilla Rhythm changes line from organist Don Patterson's LH line on "Oleo."  I also like Sam Jones's playing on Bill Evans's version of the same tune -- his lines are pretty original, if I remember correctly.  Maybe those could help get you started.

jaledin -- 12/28/2006, 16:39:27 -- #31986

I do like Barry's advice, I must say.  The other great philosopher of LH bass is Scott Hawthorn -- you can find his lessons online easily using whatever search engine you prefer.   In further response to ayolt -- you learn to carve out good basslines by transcribing.  I gave a few solid examples, but if those examples are too simple for you, Ron Carter with the MD quintet should slow you down for a while as far as rhythm changes go. (!)

Scot -- 12/28/2006, 21:35:37 -- #31986

A great example of someone who jams with a left hand bass line is the amazing Dave McKenna.  Check his live at maybeck recital hall recording: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1006605&style=music&frm=lk_learnjazz He's a master of a tasty left hand walking bass line.  Any of us can do what he does, technically, but to swing as hard as he does is more difficult.

ronald1 -- 12/29/2006, 09:45:46 -- #31986

thanks for the enthusiastic responses! I take the point that the rhythms for walking bass are very basic, but the notes are quite frequently not so basic, and I'm gonna really have to put some time in to get my LH automatic with my favourite ones (but boy it'll be worth it when Im done!) thanks again Ronald

Jazz+ -- 12/29/2006, 11:03:32 -- #31986

You don't need a large number of walking patterns,  just get a few quarter note routines that can walk or skip you up or down to the next chord. The groove and sound dynamic is very important. There is also hopping bass 1 5 8 5

PomPom -- 12/30/2006, 03:30:10 -- #31986

What do you use for a walking bass over a minor ii-v-i ?? (for example Alone together [ Dmin | Emin7b5 A7 ]

7 -- 12/30/2006, 11:55:21 -- #31986

In the case of two beats per chord, this is an extremely common pattern (chord quality doesn't matter): | ii   V    | I ... | 1 b5 1 b5 | 1 ... | Eř   A7   | Dm | | E Bb A Eb | D  | * * * * * * * In the case of four beats per chord, this is an extremely common pattern (chord quality doesn't matter): | ii       | V        | I ... | 1 2 b3 3 | 1 2 b3 3 | 1 ... | Eř        | A7       | Dm | | E F# G G# | A B C C# | D  |

jaledin -- 12/31/2006, 13:33:01 -- #31986

And you can certainly get a lot of mileage from using some of those "core" ideas 7 laid out above.  Again, just check out Jimmy Smith ("Gracie" is a minor blues in C) or just about anybody playing a line on an F blues.   It really is just about as complicated as using those core patterns 7 wrote out and mastering the feel -- nobody expects you to play intricate lines, and it probably would hurt your RH performance, anyway, to devote so much mental space to the bassline.   Again, if you listen to any jazz organist who plays the bass with his LH, you'll see what's reasonably possible to do with the LH (not a great deal, compared with a "real" bassist," although it can be subtle enough) and how good a simple line can sound if it's done right. Of course, Dave McKenna *is* the master of the swinging walking line, and he does do some more complicated lines, but then again, since it's a major part of what he's known for, I'd guess he's willing to sacrifice playing more complicated things in his RH.  That's just a guess -- he truly is the one and only master of this technique on piano, though.

Scot -- 01/02/2007, 08:28:48 -- #31986

Also make sure you look at the walking bass lesson here.  It lays out some simple to use rules that will give you easy ways to make a walking

El Cuco Pianist -- 01/04/2007, 16:29:02 -- #31986

The BEST WALKING BASS is THE BOOGIE WOOGIE.....pure,essential,deep like the sea.... If you play it,the whole world will be yours.

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