Scot Ranney's LearnJazzPiano.com archive: What do you think of?

LearnJazzPiano.com archives: What do you think of?
bavern -- 01/04/2007, 13:52:48 -- #32166
What do you think of when you improvise? you got any any meaning with your solo? I have trouble doing a solo that I can be proud of. I can't keep and build up an ide through the whole solo it seems. What I mean with what you think when you improvise is if you think of it as drawing or something? It just feels meaningless if I don't want to say anything with my solo.
Whacky -- 01/04/2007, 14:58:41 -- #32166
There are lots of different approaches to this. I seem to do better if I don't think. Although, I do tend to start simple - a few notes here and there to kind of "prime the pump" so to speak. I think Chic Corea said it best when he said something like "Play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything" While it's important to spend many hours, days, weeks, months, and years of listening, studying, thinking and practicing, when performing, try to just sit back, relax and enjoy the show - don't think, don't judge, just play :)
Whacky -- 01/04/2007, 14:59:27 -- #32166
- in fact, you should practice that way from time to time as well...
jazzwee -- 01/04/2007, 15:18:33 -- #32166
Dr. Whack is absolutely right. When you practice -- think A LOT. When you play, there should be no thinking. Go on autopilot and watch your hands. Read the book "Effortless Mastery" by Kenny Werner.
james3 -- 01/04/2007, 17:23:09 -- #32166
I usually think about puppies and rainbows but that's only when I'm playing AC/DC. When I play jazz I think about bowling and window washing.
Scot -- 01/04/2007, 17:57:18 -- #32166
I tell students, "Practice from the head, perform from the heart." I do sometimes think about things when I'm constructing a solo. I like to make sure I remember everything I did in the first chorus. That way I can tie it in later when I'm coming out of the solo, and inside the solo I can take themes that I introduced in my first chorus. That brings the audience and your musicians back to something they can really grip while you start working on what's coming next. I don't always think of that. Sometimes in the middle of a solo I'll start working on an idea and then just sort of dig it, and get the band into it, and go somewhere with that. If I'm not consciously recognizing it, then one of the players in the trio is. If it's solo piano, of course you have to recognize everything you're playing or it will just turn into noise. Being deliberate in what you play and knowing what you are going to play is important to me. If not, then it's just your fingers playing, mechanical. Make it organic. I think of that sometimes. I remember hearing Pat Metheny say that the guitar is so easy, playing all sorts of licks and crazy lines, but because it's so easy to play all sorts of stuff (like a piano), the musician sometimes forgets to keep it organic, give the listener something to connect with. Is this getting to long? Here's something else I might think about. A conversation. If I feel like I'm playing a lot of stuff and not waiting for anyone to digest it, I try to remember about playing being a conversation. Play something, wait for the listener to get it. Play that something again, put a variation on it, continue musically discussion whatever issue, idea, or word that you are trying to get across. Keep it up in the same way, hitting that idea incessantly, until you are sure you've said what you've got to say on the subject. Then move on to the next idea. Sometimes if I'm feeling really weak on a particular night, I'll make myself do that in a blues or something. Play through an idea for what seems like forever, and then play around with it some more. You would be amazed at what kind of stuff can come out of the business of really examining what you are "saying" and making sure to make your position clear while giving your listers a chance to grasp it all.
Jazz+ -- 01/04/2007, 19:02:25 -- #32166
"What do you think of when you improvise?" Some of what I think of is the rhythm and shape that I am phrasing with my eighths and what my left is doing harmonicly as a guide. "You got any any meaning with your solo?" "What I mean with what you think when you improvise is if you think of it as drawing or something?" I tend to outline or "draw" shapes of the harmonies (chords) thus the connection to the left hand.
bavern -- 01/05/2007, 06:14:44 -- #32166
Thanks for all the answers this is really helpful! Keep them comming if you got more. I got very inspired now and I think I'm going to play some piano right away! /Oscar
7 -- 01/05/2007, 11:48:19 -- #32166
What do you think of when you improvise? Wow, that's one I've never heard before! So much of what I do operates on the subconscious reflex level, that "front brain thinking" kind of takes a back seat. However, after giving this question an awful lot of thought, I came up with a couple of things that I do think about in the heat of a solo: 1. Target notes If I am playing a tune that I'm pretty familiar with, it is obvious that there are certain notes that just "have to be played" at certain points in the song. My conscious thought goes into devising clever ways to approach said target notes. 2. Past glories I often find myself trying to recall cool things that I had done on previous play-throughs of the same tune, ie "What the hell was that really slick trick I came up with LAST TIME I played this number?" While some might contend that this is not "truly" improvising, there is a high possibility that I will not pull off the same lick exactly the way I did it last time. But generally I will come up with something similar and just as cool, and as often as not I'll be able to tweak that trick so that it's even BETTER than the last time. 3. Reality concerns While this does not fall within the realm of Art, I'll often find myself thinking things like: "Is the crowd digging this? Should I take another chorus? How the hell can I top the last one I just did?" "Didn't I just play the same shit in the last chorus? Quick man, think of something new!" "Is that chick in the low cut blouse with somebody tonight, or do I have a shot?" "How many more minutes is it until the break?"
bavern -- 01/05/2007, 15:19:04 -- #32166
Thanks 7! Maybe I have got a little wrong but when I listen to the masters it feels like they have a deeper meaning with the solo.
jwv76 -- 01/06/2007, 02:46:38 -- #32166
I really do believe that in order for one to do anything musically, whether improvising or not, in order to make it truly meaningful, truly musical, that one's attention must be completely and wholly devoted to listening. Thinking is just one thing the mind is capable of, just one mode of experience. When you get past, or underneath thinking, when you talk about the subconcious mind, there is just direct experience, unmitigated, it is what it is. Somebody mentioned Kenny Werner's book, what I got out of that book was how to listen to my own playing in a non-judgemental way. It changes everything. So much of our thought process is tied up in "right" and "wrong", I don't believe that that part of the mind is the part where music comes from. Paying atttention to the sound of your instrument in a non-judgemental way, just listening, puts you into the non-dualistic space of mind where creativity and sponteneity can actually happen. It amazes me sometimes to think how long I've been playing music, and how little of that time I've actually been listening. It's so easy to get distracted, you get anxious, you become self absorbed, and all of a sudden you're not making music anymore, you're playing notes that don't need to be played. The thing about listening is that you don't have to try to do it, you're doing it all the time, but you usually don't pay attention to it. I've found it helpful to make a practice of conscious listening even when I'm nowhere near my instrument, like when I'm riding the bus, I just close my eyes, and listen.
bavern -- 01/06/2007, 06:47:40 -- #32166
yes that's true. I always try to listen activ when I play and listen to music. I try to listen to myself as if there were another person playing. (sry for my english!)
Mike -- 01/06/2007, 07:06:38 -- #32166
bavern does everything you say as a person when you speak have profound meaning? I doubt it. I know I am lucky if everything that comes out of my mouth when I speak is even halfway intelligent. But I am myself when I speak. This is my goal when I improvise as well. I submit to you the goal is not to make a profound statement every time you take a solo or improvise the goal is just to be yourself. In Jazz it is actually a little easier for me than in other idioms sometimes because it is much like going for a walk. I am just trying to create a flowing string of eigth notes. Basically when I start playing eigth notes I think of it in a similar way as one would think of as jumping into a stream. Ocassionaly I jump out. When I jump out this is the end of a string of eigth notes and the end of a phrase. Then when I am rested and ready to say something else I jump back in the stream. What pitches I chose to play I think of as highly secondary. Right now I am highly inot applying the theories of George Russel and the scales from his Lydian Chromatic concept but that does not really matter except.... I have found in the past that it easier to make scales (smalll intervals) flow down the stream than it is to make large intervals flow. So I do reccomend spending a lot of time studying chord scales of some sort for this reason.
Jazz+ -- 01/06/2007, 11:59:03 -- #32166
Nice analogy, Mike.
bavern -- 01/07/2007, 05:36:19 -- #32166
Yes I get your point Mike and I think your way of thinking was exactly what I mean. It seems to me that if you have a way of thinking it's easier than just play some random tones. I agree that you maybe don't have to have a real meaning with a solo but I still think you have to play something that the audience can understand otherwise it will get boring and hard to listen to.
Whacky -- 01/07/2007, 09:42:31 -- #32166
In thinking about this more, I realize that I do consider things like - how long is this solo supposed to be? For example, if I am reading a chart and I see I have and 8 or 16 bar little solo ahead, my approach would probably be more structured than if I was maybe playing in a small group playing tunes where everyone takes turns playing until they have nothing more to say... One of the other things I consider is texture and shapes (dynamics, harmonies, busy lines v. simple lines etc...how I might "build" or not) If possible I like my solos to have a beginning and an end - just like the statements I'm trying to make right now...(guess I'm reiterating what's already been said by some of the other esteemed members)
bavern -- 01/08/2007, 10:26:03 -- #32166
There's my problem I think. I don't seem to have a nice ending on my solos and therefor it makes no sense..
jwv76 -- 01/08/2007, 12:07:58 -- #32166
Your solo doesn't have to have some grand finale for an ending, it just needs to signal to the audience (and to your bandmates) that your solo is ending. A good solo should have a "curve" of intensity - you don't want to put all your best ideas into your first chorus, it's best to lay it on easy at first, then build intensity with each chorus. It doesn't have to be completely linear either, you can be pounding out heavy block chords in one chorus and back it off in the next, barely twinkling a few notes here and there. Pay mucho attention to dynamics, without shifting dynamics from soft to loud to soft again music becomes lifeless and mechanical. Also I've found that paying attention to dynamics is a great way to go into that "listening"/receptive mind state that I was talking about earlier. The end of a solo can be like the "denoument." You need to make a decision a good eight bars at least before the end of the chorus whether or not you're going to take another chorus. If in doubt, it's better to quit while you're ahead - I've ruined plenty of good solos by taking another chorus after I already ran out of ideas. Sometimes I do like to build up to a big "Ta-da" at the end of my solos, but the easiest thing to do is just relax everything at the end of a solo, let it unwind, kind of just dwindle down. Play fewer ideas, shorter phrases, and decrescendo through the last 4 bars or so. Hope that helps.
jwv76 -- 01/08/2007, 12:14:21 -- #32166
Ha ha I just thought of something you can think of it like sex, there's a little foreplay and teasing at first, then the action really gets started. The ending should just be the snuggling and cuddling after the main event. Sorry, my mind is in low places today. ;)
Whacky -- 01/08/2007, 22:13:18 -- #32166
I'll put this in the videos room too - but I thought it illustrates what we're all trying to "say" :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsBC5C5ERho
Mike -- 01/09/2007, 15:19:57 -- #32166
Well you know it has been said that Coltrane once complained he did not know how to end his solo's. Miles Davis told someone to tell hime to take the horn out of his mouth.
Mike -- 01/09/2007, 15:20:29 -- #32166
true story as far as I know.
Jez -- 01/09/2007, 16:43:08 -- #32166
I always seem to do better solos when I don't think too much about what I'm playing, and just do my best to follow what my ear's tellin me! Mike - I'd heard that story about 'Trane too, maybe he did have a bit too much to say sometimes!
Mike -- 01/10/2007, 16:05:40 -- #32166
maybe it does not have to be about the length of the solo, although I think you are right that thatis what they were talking about in that instance. But sometimes we make things harder than they have to be. In normal life when we are talking to someone when it is time for us to go we do not often wonder ... "what would be the perfect way to end this conversation?" We simply say.."look I gotta go , see ya". So I am saying we should be that simple with our playing most of the time... ... Just take the horn out of your mouth or ... as I was saying earlier,... Jump out ot the stream. It is really that simple. You will sound more authentic that way and in many ways better than someone who trys to come up with something perfect and ends up sounding fake.
bavern -- 01/12/2007, 09:29:51 -- #32166
The film was nice. Is it you Dr.Whack? Yes I understand what you all mean I think. I just thought this question had not been asked before. So I asked it! It was not as clear to me maybe. Thank you everybody!
Whacky -- 01/12/2007, 18:49:14 -- #32166
That's not me - heh heh. Here's me - I'm the one in the pink
Whacky -- 01/12/2007, 18:50:47 -- #32166
hmm...must have been too big (the pic that is)
dryice -- 01/14/2007, 09:01:04 -- #32166
My first post here will be like the top of some solos - tentative: Don't let yourself get in the way of the music - just let the music play you. The music controls you - you control the piano. The goal on any instrument is to discover one's personal voice or style. Don't let the piano always force you to play it in a strictly pianistic way. Make it bend to you, while you bend to the sounds you hear. (This explains why I'm not actively teaching. After a very late out of town gig, I shouldn't even be allowed to type.) But what a wonderful forum you have here!
DoubleZ -- 01/14/2007, 13:26:48 -- #32166
James3- "When I play jazz I think about bowling" Hahaha me too! Glad to see there's another jazz piano playing bowler out there. But most of the time, I'm not thinking about anything related to music. Usually I'm just sitting back and enjoying what I'm playing. When I'm performing, the only significant thing I really think about is how I want to "build" the solo, and working with the drummer and bass to reach a big climax (hehe) and "connect" with the rhythm section. Everything else I just don't think about, unless I'm playing with some new methods or ideas.
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