LearnJazzPiano.com archives: To Ronald: walking bass

Reharmonize_me -- 01/24/2007, 21:21:50 -- #32673

I tried several times to respond to your question, but my post did not take.  I even rebooted and signed in again to the forum to post my response, but even this post did not take. Ronald:  About your walking bass problem, where something sounds bad to you. My question to you is, which combination of notes, exactly, sounds bad to you? J.

Reharmonize_me -- 01/24/2007, 22:17:08 -- #32673

I mean to say that I was unable to post a response to your question, as a response.  So I needed to post my response as a new thread. J.

ronald1 -- 01/25/2007, 07:14:44 -- #32673

well..i guess its not one note exactly, and im not playing anything but the chord tones of the progression, but its just not convincing me (maybe im just not anticipating each chord well enough though).  What exactly would you play for the first 4 bars of dolphin dance for example (| Ebmaj7 | Dbmaj7/Eb | Ebmaj7 | D-7b5 G7 |). thanks for the help

jwv76 -- 01/25/2007, 19:54:15 -- #32673

I think when Herbie wrote that section his intention was to contrast the sound of a sus13 chord (Dbmaj7/Eb) against the sound of a maj7 chord. If there's too much movement in the bass, you lose that contrast, whenever I hear this tune performed I hear bass players heavily emphasize the root on that section, with either a pedal on the 1, or some kind of 5 1 bass line. So to answer your question in the other thread, yes there are situations that do not lend themselves particularly well to walking bass lines. There are several spots in that tune where that is the case. BTW that section is usually just played as an intro to the tune and is not repeated as part of the form. If it were part of the form that was repeated through recurring choruses, you could walk through it just to mix it up a bit, so you wouldn't be playing a pedal every time, but as an intro I don't think it works very well with a walking bass.

elwapo -- 01/26/2007, 06:49:09 -- #32673

This should be of some help! Enjoy http://organfreak.tripod.com//bass.html

Reharmonize_me -- 01/26/2007, 21:25:20 -- #32673

Ronald, some folks who know the tune much better than me gave excellent advice.  Also I split the thread due to some technical difficulty, sorry about that.  Their advice was better than any I could have given.  That being said, I was going to suggest the basic step of always being conscious of the interval going on between the bass and any melody or harmony note in the right hand struck or sustained during any bass note you play.  Sometimes there can be one note in your harmony that just clashes with that bass and sours up the whole thing, best luck.

Jazz+ -- 01/26/2007, 23:03:17 -- #32673

"always being conscious of the interval going on between the bass and any melody or harmony note in the right hand struck or sustained during any bass note you play." I never think about that and I play left hand keyboard bass professionaly several gigs every week at $125 per hour.

Reharmonize_me -- 02/01/2007, 21:38:16 -- #32673

Jazz+, how do you avoid making dissonance with your co-musicians?

Jazz+ -- 02/01/2007, 22:25:58 -- #32673

Jazz likes dissonance. What dissonance are you worried about for example? Walking bass while soloing in the right hand leaves little time for worrying about the harmonic  intervals between the two independant lines. My bass lines are inside the epropwe scale chord associations so there is verry little clashing. Example: On the Miles Davi Cannonball Adderly version of 'Autumn Leaves' the bass player plays | C  E | F   |for | C-7  | F7 |. The E should be dissonant but it's no problem.   I almost always have the root on beat 1 but if the chord lasts for two measures I'll often land on the 5th on the downbeat of the second measure.

Reharmonize_me -- 02/01/2007, 23:08:22 -- #32673

Ok, I see what you are saying and I think I understand it, so let me rephrase the question a bit. I see what you are saying when you state that jazz likes dissonance.  But in group, not all instrumentalists like dissonance at all times. A solo pianist has to make sure his walking bass doesn't clash with the rest of what he's playing, according to his own ear .....unless it's his intention to make some dissonance.  This points back to the original question of the original post in the thread....it seems he's playing solo piano with a walking bass, and he's coming up with some unwanted dissonance, and asking us to think about that on his behalf. You're a keyboard bassist playing in group, and you're not worried about making dissonance.  I guess I'm wondering how, when you are playing in group with your fellow musicians, how do you avoid making dissonance in the eyes of your co-musicians who are playing with you at the time? I'm getting what you are saying in your previous posts, but I'm having a bit of trouble seeing how those posts apply to the solo pianist trying to make his walking bass "walk and talk" at the same time. Thanks Jazz+ R_m

jwv76 -- 02/02/2007, 02:25:39 -- #32673

I don't remember Ronald1 saying that his bass lines were creating dissonance - just that they didn't seem to fit the context. My take on it was that he was applying an approach that was more complicated than what the situation called for, in some instances a simpler bass line is more effective, the intro to dolphin dance being one of them. Walking bass lines employ a lot of leading tones, which by their nature are dissonant. They work without straining the ear because they immediately resolve to a strong, consonant tone. All great music, regardless of genre, is a balancing act between tension and release. Great improvisers and composers move between tension and release, dissonance and consonance, like a fish through water.

Eighty-Eight -- 02/02/2007, 07:32:09 -- #32673

Anybody know of any Dave McKenna transcriptions?

Jazz+ -- 02/02/2007, 11:42:24 -- #32673

jwv76 said it perfectly. I'll mention a strategy: Walk in the scales that are typicaly associated with each chord. Frequently use a chromatic approach note on the beat before a new root. Favorite 2 bar pattern: | 1 3 6 b6 | 5 3 1 CA  |  (CA = chromatic approach note)

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