LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Do I have perfect pitch?

loveforJAZZ -- 04/01/2007, 07:31:37 -- #34320

Many years ago, I tried to learn perfect pitch. I started memorizing the individual notes of a c major triad. I then went on to memorize  all the notes of the c major scale. Then finally, I memorized all the notes in the chromatic scale. When somebody played a note on the keyboard, I was only able to tell that person the name of the note that I heard. However, I am not able to sing a note on command. I am able to hear and name a note on my own very instrument but cannot name a note with another instrument or timbre.  I have to tell you that I memorized all these notes WITHOUT really singing them. A few years ago I bought Matt Glaser's, "Ear Training for Instrumentalists". In the beginning, he tells you that in order for you to really hear something, you need to be able to sing it. He also tells you the process of hearing which involves these steps: 1. First, listen to a note 2. Then, repeat the note in your head 3. Then, hum the note with your voice 4. Finally, convert the note you hummed with your voice to your fingers or your instrument However, I did not do this process when I was first learning perfect pitch. I clearly did not use the correct method to learn perfect pitch. I am now starting to think that I do not have perfect pitch at all. Do I not have perfect pitch? Or is it just another version of perfect pitch?

jaledin -- 04/01/2007, 07:41:34 -- #34320

Several scientists have theorized that the difference between absolute pitch (cultivated as a child) and those who simply memorized the pitches in later life lies in the *speed* with which one can recall pitches.  I think the most convincing theories hold that, much like in language acquisition, there is a window of opportunity in which absolute pitch may be developed fully (i.e., early childhood).  In learning languages, once that window has passed, the learner is apt to acquire only a near-native grasp of the language at best, e.g., with a slight accent, or maybe an imperfect grasp of certain kinds of nativisms.  So it may be with absolute pitch -- the learner who attempts pitch memorization later in life will tend to carry artifacts of slowness and general imperfection along with his newly-acquired practice. There is wide variation in the abilities of those with absolute pitch -- I don't believe any credible scientist who has studied the issue has suggested that you have to be able to sing a pitch as well as recognize it.  There are also wide ranges of variation in the accuracy of pitch recognition and reproduction. Is Glaser even talking about absolute pitch?  It sounds to me like he's just talking about a technique for ear training in general -- it does sound like good advice, I suppose, though.

Whacky -- 04/01/2007, 08:25:40 -- #34320

As I've said before, being a person who has this ability I can say the the notion of "perfect pitch" is b.S. :) There are many pitches in between the 12 tuned to A440 that we choose to use her in the west.   What do we call those?  What if I sing 442 and call it A,  am I still correct?  Maybe in Europe:)  (Chances are I would sing 440 because  that's what I've heard most of my life)

Whacky -- 04/01/2007, 08:28:08 -- #34320

...furthermore...I have worked with several singers who could sing their starting pitches without an intro, but really did not know the name of those pitches...is knowing the name of the pitch the criteria for defining this ability?   hmmmm

loveforJAZZ -- 04/01/2007, 08:53:16 -- #34320

Matt Glaser is talking about relative pitch. I first thought that the instructional cds were for musicians with perfect pitch but when I listened to all the cds, I knew he was talking about relative pitch because he was mentioning the use of intervals and sulfege syllables.

loveforJAZZ -- 04/01/2007, 09:05:55 -- #34320

I have read many articles are perfect pitch and relative pitch. They all say one way or another that if you want to figure out something by ear, you must be able to sing it.

jaledin -- 04/01/2007, 11:28:33 -- #34320

So what you're saying, Dr. Whack, is that so-called "perfect pitch" is really relative to both the tuning standard to which one was exposed during formative years, and also to the scale system (temperament, and so forth) which dominates in a given culture?  That seems like good common sense. As wacky as it sounds, I've actually heard some people claim the opposite is true -- I find it difficult to believe anybody with average intelligence would believe such a thing, but, there are a few of those nutjobs out there. I don't believe, loveforJAZZ, that there are any "musts" when it comes to absolute pitch -- people have it in different degrees and in different forms.  Some can sing, some can't, some might be off by as much as a semitone sometimes, some have a tighter range for tolerance -- it is what it is.

rewsnat -- 04/01/2007, 11:34:29 -- #34320

David lucas burge in his ear training program did mention your case exactly. I strongly suggest you go check out his website. If im not mistaken, you are now in an early stage of perfect pitch.. and only one step away from acquiring it fully. David l. burge mentioned in his program that, in the early stages of perfect pitch you might not be able to recall the pitches from thin air, but can hear them if being played. He also mentioned that you will start by only hearing the pitches by your own instrument, but slowly with practise you will be able to expand your ability to hear pitches in different timbre. COnclusion, don't give up!! you are already close!!!

loveforJAZZ -- 04/01/2007, 15:19:45 -- #34320

For all those out there who have aquired perfect pitch, what do you think is the best way to learn and memorize different pitches?

kaon99 -- 04/01/2007, 15:42:16 -- #34320

All, Here is an interesting fact:  A fairly large fraction of Chinese have perfect pitch, while only a very small fraction of American/English/European people do.  I don't recall the exact numbers, but I think it was about 1/3 for the Chinese and less than 1/100 for the rest.  It is attributed to Chinese (Mandarin) being a "sung" language where pitch carries meaning.  So there seems to be support for the notion that perfect pitch can be learned if you are trained early in life.      If anyone knows the exact numbers, please comment.  Peace. - Ken

jmkarns -- 04/01/2007, 19:51:32 -- #34320

I agree that so called perfect pitch is rare.  Watch vocal groups who sing A Cappella.  Someone usually blows the starting note on a pitch pipe.

kaon99 -- 04/01/2007, 20:26:19 -- #34320

All, I tracked down the information.  A study of music conservatory students in the US and China was made.  In China, more than 60% of the students had perfect pitch.  In the US it was a about 14%  ( compared to 1/10,000 in the general US population).  The conclusion of the scientists (who were language experts) is that perfect pitch may be a universal ability of infants, given pitch training early in life.  Thus expose your kids to known pitches early in life and they may learn to identify absolute pitches.       Google on "perfect pitch Chinese" and you will come up with the info.       Ken

Whacky -- 04/01/2007, 22:45:48 -- #34320

Apparently dogs also have it.  Although they can't name the pitches they can be taught do discern and perform or react to different pitches. I really think it's just a matter of awareness.  (all three of my sons have it too)

knotty -- 04/03/2007, 07:01:12 -- #34320

Hey Dr, Did you help your children acquire it or they just got it on their own? My son's 3 and I'd like to help him acquire it.

Whacky -- 04/03/2007, 07:10:43 -- #34320

It's funny, I did set out to "develop" it with one of my middle son when he was about 5 years old ( he was playing a lot of piano at the time).... so I started out just playing white keys between middle C and treble cleff C and having him find and play the key back to me.    After a few weeks I decided to surprise him with and F#.  He said, "oh....they used to play that one at the bank where we use to live when you walk in the door"  We had moved several months earlier. My oldest son came home one day when he was around 9 or 10 and told me he had to tune his friend's guitar.  I asked where he learned to tune a guitar and he said "I heard you tune yours"  Now I'm a piano player so I do not tune or play a guitar very often. My youngest son thought he did not have this ability until I played him some keys and he was able to tell me what they were.... So, for some reason they are "in tune" to listening and remembering on a subconscious level.  Only one of them (my youngest now 18) is actually involved with and playing music - in fact he's considering a music degree -oy...

jazzvirtuoso -- 04/03/2007, 14:03:24 -- #34320

For all those out there who have aquired perfect pitch, what do you think is the best way to learn and memorize different pitches? For me it was the realization that pitches have sublte, but distinct personalities or small noticable differences. Some here have tried to argue that fact, but it is indisputable, other wise how else could anyone recognize the difference? Just like you can discern the subtle difference's between identical twins. One may be a little taller, fatter, thinner that the other etc, but most people have the ability to make that diffrentiation. The tuning of a piano is also irrelevant(as long as it's in tune with it self), if a piano is tuned to 440 A, then at every F# their will be a twangy, gritteness. If you move the pitch of that piano up by a half step then the grittness will become G natural. And yes, their are notes that fall in-between the cracks too. Aural recall seems to be be what your asking about. The first note i learned to sing from memory was A natural. I started out using vowel sounds I can send those to you if you'd like. I abandoned that after i got the sound of the tones in my head, I just needed that to give me a start. JV'

CynBad -- 04/03/2007, 16:46:54 -- #34320

Only one of them (my youngest now 18) is actually involved with and playing music - in fact he's considering a music degree -oy... OY indeed. When I was working on mine, somebody asked my piano professor, "What can you do with a Bachelor's in Music?"  He replied, "Get a Master's.

Whacky -- 04/03/2007, 21:52:48 -- #34320

heh heh - the same line can apply to a lot of degrees - psychology, philosophy, art...the list goes on and one...one of my sons was majoring in audio production until he asked me what he would actually do with it :) Pursuing a degree is a great way to network and make contacts with folks in your field though...(probably should be another thread or another room :)

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