| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: have you met miss jones improv problems | |
| nate_smith -- 04/01/2007, 21:24:23 -- #34340 | |
| i'm having a hard time improvising over the bridge i'm no sure what to do. are there any practice tips you might have? thank, nate | |
| 7 -- 04/01/2007, 22:26:08 -- #34340 | |
| Go to the nave bar on your left and click on Rooms: show list Then in second section from the top in the middle, you'll find Monthly Standards Scroll down to Miss Jones and click on it. At the top left of the page, you'll see list files Click on it, there you'll find midi renditions of "Have You Met Miss Jones" by many of LJP's best and brightest contributors, including: Scot Ranney (two versions), Doug McKenzie (two versions), Warren Fields, Sid Thomas, Ryan Cullen, Barry Dallman (two versions) and even one by me. If you have the (FREE) VanBasco player, you can watch these being performed on a virtual keyboard on your computer screen while you listen to the tunes. VERY EDUCATIONAL! If those files don't give you some great ideas for your own treatment, nothing will. | |
| dalty52 -- 04/02/2007, 03:46:19 -- #34340 | |
| Find a good recording of the tune, and transcribe what is played over the bridge. | |
| smg -- 04/02/2007, 18:41:01 -- #34340 | |
| http://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/1175564645/1075846998_Document.rtf | |
| smg -- 04/02/2007, 18:44:26 -- #34340 | |
| The link above is something I posted a few years ago over here as a way of dealing with this and other musical situations..check it out and let me know what you think of the approach over there(360 degrees)if you want......... | |
| james3 -- 04/02/2007, 19:27:04 -- #34340 | |
| looks like a potentially broken link smg...love to see it though | |
| tomwrush -- 04/02/2007, 22:06:34 -- #34340 | |
| Hi nate- please be more specific about your problem. Are you having difficulty hearing the harmonic movement? In my case, difficulties in hearing material to play always comes down to my ear training. I recommend bruce arnolds ear training materials to develop the ears that will let you play the kind of lines you want to play. You might hear the whole bridge in the key of Bb, or Gb or D. if you heard it in Bb, you would have Cm7 as 2,4,6,9 F7 5,7,9,4 Bbmaj 1,3,5,7 Abm7 b7,b9,4,b6 Db7 b3,5,b7,b9 Gbmaj7 as b6,1,b3,5 Em7 +4,6,+1,3 A7 7,+2,+4,6 Dmaj7 3,+5,7,+3 try playing a cadence in Bb and then singing those tones over it. If you can sing all of those in time a 100 bpm, you'll have no time playing over the bridge. This is a very long process. This is just to get you started. Good luck. | |
| smg -- 04/04/2007, 17:08:33 -- #34340 | |
| http://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?action=files&sub=file_list&room_id=1075217954&hall_id=1074923352 | |
| smg -- 04/04/2007, 17:14:51 -- #34340 | |
| The link above should get you to the files over there at "360 degrees" and then scroll down to the file called "Developing melodic improv skills"...... | |
| Scot -- 04/04/2007, 18:12:20 -- #34340 | |
| The bridge isn't that bad. Just think of it in key centers. Bar 1: Bb Maj Bar 2,3: Gb Maj Bar 4,5: D Maj Bar 6,7: Gb Maj Bar 8: lead in to key of F The reason it's tricky is that the key centers don't change where you think they should. So, take the first two measures of the bridge. You have this melody where the phrase ends the first beat of bar two where you have an Abm7 - Db7 chord progression. The thing is, that Abm7 - Db7 chord progression is already part of the key of of Gb Maj. This starts in the last measure of the second ending, actually, where most jazzers will play a Cm7 - F7 to lead into the Bb Maj, which means you can start your phrase early (which is always cool) and not wait until the bridge actually starts before you dive into something. Maybe this is easier to see: Last measure of second ending: [ Cm7 F7 ] (a basic 2-5-1 into Bb) Bridge: [ BbMaj7 ] [ Abm7 Db7 ] [ GbMaj7 ] [ Em7 A7 ] key: BbMaj key: Gb (2-5-1 into Gb) key: DMaj, 2-5-1 [ DMaj7 ] [ Abm7 Db7 ] [ GbMaj ] [ Gm C7 ] key: DMaj key: GbMaj (2-5-1 again) key: F (2-5-1 to last A section) So, don't worry about playing each of the chords, just play within the key center which should make things a lot easier. Remember- Don't worry about all the chords in 2-5-1 chord progressions. When you see Cm7-F7 to BbMaj, don't worry about the Cm7 or the F7. They are just part of the BbMaj chord and if you think of it that way it frees your mind up to play cooler stuff as well as letting your whole being relax a little bit. I probably just made this more confusing, but it's how I think of it, or try not to actually. | |
| charlp88 -- 04/05/2007, 08:00:21 -- #34340 | |
| Hey Gang this is all very interesting. FYI the john coltrane classic Giant Steps is based on the bridge of Have you met miss jones ---- Cool hah? trane was a big fan of richard rodgers` music charlie | |
| Scot -- 04/05/2007, 09:06:43 -- #34340 | |
| You can see it in the first two chord center- Giant Steps goes from B to G, and Have You Met Miss Jones goes from Bb to Gb. It's that lesser known circle of thirds :) | |
| jaledin -- 04/08/2007, 21:54:21 -- #34340 | |
| Chet Baker has a couple of very nice takes on this tune -- I'd suggest looking them up for transcribing. As is typical for his work, very tuneful, coherent development of thematic material. Speaking of Chet, and "Coltrane's changes" -- "But Not For Me" is a tune both musicians have made stellar recordings of. It might be a nice idea to study both performances as well, to further cement the somewhat tricky harmonic progression while keeping one foot firmly planted in the basic melodic material both artists treat and exploit. | |
| jwv76 -- 04/09/2007, 12:15:39 -- #34340 | |
| On the Coltrane version of "But Not For Me" they play the same 'cycle of thirds' as in "Giant Steps." The chords for the first 4 bars are I Ebmaj7 F#7 I Bmaj7 D7 I Gmaj7 Bb7 I Ebmaj7 I then it repeats one time, the second time at the end there's a quick ii-V to the IV chord, the Ab, which is the first bar of the B section. Coltrane alters the melody to fit the chords. On the Chet Baker version I have they play the complete original verse as an intro, which is cool, you don't hear anybody do that anymore. Both versions play the same progression on the B sections. The Chet Baker version is in Db. I'm a little confused as to what the "standard" changes are supposed to be on this tune, on the Ralph Patt page he has the first chord of the tune as II7. The Chet Baker changes differ from the RP changes in a number of ways, but most noticeably they start the chorus on I, not II7. It seems like I've heard other people do it the RP way, the melody doesn't sound bad at all over those changes, but these are the only two recordings I actually have of this tune. I like this tune a lot, I'd be curious if other people have different takes on it. | |
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