Scot Ranney's LearnJazzPiano.com archive: Electronic Pianos

LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Electronic Pianos
mozart2b2002 -- 05/17/2007, 16:00:19 -- #35118
Anyone have a good suggestion on a portable electronic keyboard that gives the best real piano sound (don't really care so much about any of the other sounds). I've had it with the sticking keys on my Yamaha p80. Looking to spend around $1,000 - $1,300 or so. Thanks
Jazz+ -- 05/17/2007, 18:08:56 -- #35118
Rolands brand new FP4 (33 lbs, $1015) uses the sasme samples as Roland's top of the line RD-700SX. Roland has made a big advance with the latest FP series, there's nothing as good out there in my mind. I had been avoiding using any digital piano's "Piano" sound live and instead have been using a Rhodes sound for the past four years. Now I'm using the FP4 Piano 1 all the time live. The FP4 action is "lighter" and it's key return is faster than the FP7 action, I prefer it, it feels more connected to the sound for some reason. The sounds in the FP4 are the same as in the FP7 but without a few extra "tone wheel" modeled organs. However the FP4 Organ 1 is very good and Organ 7 is a great left hand manual mellow comping organ. The FP4 action is NOT like the RD-300SX action. The FP4 action has better key return, it's more responsive, more connected to the sound, firmer and crisper than the RD-300SX action. I dislike the RD-300 SX action but I love the FP4 action. The FP4 has much better sounds than the RD-300SX. I had a RD-300SX but sold it quickly. I describe the sound of the "Superior Grand", used in RD-700SX, FP7 and FP4, as a piano timber that is fundimenetaly dark in tone but at the same time has very noticeable bright resonant overtones. Here is my current rig and past gear that I got rid of: LIVE RIG: Roland FP4, EV SXa-360 speakers, WS-550 HOME GEAR: Mason & Hamlin, Roland SRX12 SOLD STUFF: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90, RD300SX, PC2X, Electro, Motif, KP-200S, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450
almonte40 -- 05/17/2007, 21:28:42 -- #35118
HE FOR TO MENTION THAT THE ROLAND FP'S KEY ACTION STARTS MISSING AFTER 2 YEARS /AND YOU HAVE TO GET IT FIX . LOOK IT UP ON THE INTERNET , THERES A LOT OF US WITH THIS PROBLEM ... ONE MORE THING THERE RYTH ACCOMPIANT IS SO BAD IT USELESS . THE ONLY GOOD THING I CAN SAID ABOUT FP'S IS THE PIANO HAS GREAT A SOUND BUT DON'T COUNT ON IT TO LAST MORE THAN 2 OR 3 YEARS . THAT THE TRUTH ............... ALMONTE40 BUFFALO NY
Scot -- 05/17/2007, 22:05:46 -- #35118
Nice info, but there's no need to "shout" using all caps for your message. The honest reason for the complaint is that it all caps messages are just annoying looking for most people.
Jazz+ -- 05/18/2007, 01:04:00 -- #35118
almonte40, I had a FP2 and a FP5 for several years and played them several hours every day and never had a key failure. My Kawai ES4 and Kurzweil PC2X actions had problems. I know two other players with FP5 units that never had a key failure. I have read the reviews on Harmony Central and don't know where you got your info about "LOTS OF US WITH PROBLEM". The Session Player rhythms are good in the FP4, good bossa nova, good samba, good contempoary funk (Joe Sample), good slow funk, good pop (Fields Of Gold), ok ride swing, etc. I use it a lot on wedding reception. I spent over 20 hours programming it and know it in great detail.
Jazz+ -- 05/18/2007, 01:07:49 -- #35118
The Session Player rhythms and chord accompaniment feature is quite good in the FP4 IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MANIPULTE IT.
Whacky -- 05/18/2007, 05:57:47 -- #35118
OUCH - WHERE ARE MY HEAR PLUGS? I have two Roland FP8s who's keys did crumble like bad teeth, but only after many years of playing several gigs a week (I bought the second one "used" as a back up so I don't know how long it was in force) I did hear that there was a design flaw in the "action" of those boards. Apparently they no longer use that action...
Jazz+ -- 05/18/2007, 10:42:20 -- #35118
The FP8 is a 10 year old model. Roland has changed their key sensor designs and action designs many times since then. There is no "design flaw", that is a falsee rumour. Ask the pros on the Keyboard Magazine Forum, they will tell you there is no known "design flaw." http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/18/page/1
Jazz+ -- 05/18/2007, 13:13:46 -- #35118
Keyboard (actions) are like cars, after you get about 80,000 miles of use on them some of the parts start to become prone to wearing out. That's why I buy my Roland FP4 keyboard for $1,015 now but will sell it for $850 in one or two years and the replace with the better sounding model which will have come out.
flapjack -- 05/18/2007, 15:41:39 -- #35118
-note to self- Don't buy used piano from Jazz+ in 2009. ;)
Whacky -- 05/18/2007, 16:04:53 -- #35118
I'm sorry you took offense to the phrase "design flaw", but in over 30 years of playing professionally I have never had a keyboard crumble the way the FP8s did - that to me is a flaw. I'm not saying the newer models have the same flaw but the oder ones definitely did - there were some plastic parts in there that just crack up. The keyboard sounds like a box of rocks when you move it, and of course the keys no longer work. Don't get me wrong, I loved my FP8, I'm having a hard time making a decision to buy another keyboard because most fall short. Someday I will check out the FP4, but since I am on sabbatical from gigging, I probably won't (I did try but no stores had one)
Jazz+ -- 05/18/2007, 20:21:30 -- #35118
I have a Roland RD-1000 from 1986 in the studio and all keys are fine. Also a 1989 Roland Rhodes MK80 without any problems. Your FP8 is from 1991, so it's 16 years old. I would never use any of them except as controllers, their piano sounds were surpassed years ago.
casparus -- 05/18/2007, 22:17:25 -- #35118
Korg SP-250. Not expensive, durable, sounds great.
Jazz+ -- 05/19/2007, 00:06:31 -- #35118
Actually Casio trumps every digital piano: Kawai, Kurzweil, Roland, Yamaha.
savage -- 05/21/2007, 07:17:30 -- #35118
Is the FP4 rhodes sound good enough for gigging? Is it the same rhodes as in the FP2? The SRX-12 is still better right?
Paul -- 05/21/2007, 08:56:17 -- #35118
Actually Casio trumps every digital piano: Kawai, Kurzweil, Roland, Yamaha. Jazz+, are you serious????
BRX -- 05/21/2007, 09:13:04 -- #35118
I hope Jazz+ isn't joking. I was very surprised last week when I played the (old) Casio Privia PX 110 in a keyboard shop. At 12 kg weight I was amazed how good the keyboard and sound were considering weight and price. I'm seriously considering the new PX 200 (still 12 kg) as a gig keyboard. (I don't like the FP4 action very much.) Anybody had the opportunity to test the new Casio yet?
Jazz+ -- 05/21/2007, 21:47:48 -- #35118
I was kidding. The Privia PX110 and PX310 are my least favorite digital pianos. They sound weird and metalic to me. The Privia actions use a hydrolic oil design that produces an inertia most unlike a real piano's inertia, it's resistant all the way to the bottom. I've had a number of friends develop full blown tendonitis while practicing on Privias and they had to stop playing. I would never recommend a Privia.
Jazz+ -- 05/24/2007, 19:14:44 -- #35118
On the Roland FP4, you don't have to play to the bottom of the key, you get a simulated escapement. Here's a friend of mine playing his brand new Roland FP4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb1NRgxjq8U I describe the sound of the "Superior Grand", used in RD-700SX, FP7 and FP4, as a "Steinway sound", a piano timber that is fundimenetaly dark in tone but at the same time has very noticeable bright resonant overtones.
Jazz+ -- 05/25/2007, 00:02:13 -- #35118
And yet another Roland FP4 video with backing tracks. Get those ear plugs ready "Dr.Whack" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOipEW8zUDs
Whacky -- 05/25/2007, 09:10:31 -- #35118
nice sounding ax Jazz+ = why would you think I'd want to wear ear plugs?
Jazz+ -- 05/25/2007, 09:52:37 -- #35118
Dr.Whack a couple posts back when I mentioned my enthusiasm for the backing tracks on the Roland FP4 I thought you replied: " OUCH - WHERE ARE MY HEAR PLUGS? "
Whacky -- 05/25/2007, 12:38:30 -- #35118
ohhh....I was referring to almonte40 and you shouting in all caps...it had nothing to do with the backing tracks - just being silly (as usual)
Jazz+ -- 05/25/2007, 14:35:01 -- #35118
Oh, I get it now, no problem.
savage -- 05/26/2007, 02:37:19 -- #35118
Friend of yours you say? Sure it´s not you? :-) The piano sound is great, i´m thinking of buying one. But i´m still interested in your opinion on the rhodes sound...
Jazz+ -- 05/26/2007, 13:31:08 -- #35118
I like the Rhodes a lot, I think it sounds very authentic. To make it more punchy and responsive I set the key Touch to Light and saved it that way. LIVE GEAR: Roland FP4 (33 lbs, $1,015), EV SXa-360 powered speakers (36 lbs each), WS-550 stand HOME: Mason & Hamlin acoustic, Roland SRX12 Rhodes card SOLD GEAR: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90, Roland RD300SX, Kurzweil PC2X, Electro, Motif, Motion Sound KP-200S, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450, 350, JBL Eon10, Roland KC350 (pair)
Jazz+ -- 05/26/2007, 13:31:48 -- #35118
I also have a real Rhodes suitcase model.
groyann -- 06/08/2007, 07:30:59 -- #35118
I have a FP5 and like it, but... I dislike its Piano Sound. I always use the Rhodes sound when gigging. Is the piano sound of the FP4 really better ? Is it exactely the same piano sample as in the RD700SX ??? I'm quite surprised of that... (regarding to the price difference) And what about the Rhodes sound ? Is it the same as in the FP5 ? Thanks in advance for your answers, I'm planning to buy a new numeric to replace my fp5, I get rid of it.
Jazz+ -- 06/08/2007, 11:57:47 -- #35118
I know what you mean about the old fp5 piano sound. That piano sample has been totally replaced now. The new FP4 and FP7 use the same samples as the RD-700SX, every key is sampled at 4 levels. The RD-700SX uses a different analog to digital converter so it has better clarity, but you won't really notice that playing live. The Rhodes, and most of the other sounds on the FP4 and FP7 are from the Fantom, they are not the old fp5 sounds.
BumSmith -- 06/10/2007, 20:53:35 -- #35118
Largely due to the glowing reviews by jazz+, I recently purchased an FP-4 from a local retailer ($1100) The verdict: I love it. Especially the pianos (electric and acoustic), organs, and and machine gun samples.
Paul -- 06/11/2007, 08:34:51 -- #35118
BumSmith Where did you buy it?
Whacky -- 06/11/2007, 09:31:34 -- #35118
That would be nice to know. I've seen them online for $1200-1500 - plus shipping. Maybe you have to haggle with your local retailer to get the good prices. Trouble is, I haven't seen one in the stores here (St. Louis) - I'd like to play one...
BumSmith -- 06/11/2007, 23:26:23 -- #35118
I bought a floor model from a local (Denver) retailer. Had to call 13 stores before I found any FP-4, and this was their last. It rules. I love the weight, the action feels good, I like the half pedal damper, the onboard speakers are useful and convenient - I played a wedding on Saturday and, though I brought my amp, never had to turn it on - it was a trio bass/drums. I have also found every built in feature to be quite useful; metronome, session partner (customizable changes), onboard usb-midi out, line in for practicing with aebersolds (through the 7w speakers or phones) or providing background music while you're finishing setting up). Honestly, I don't mean to be a fanboy or anything but this keyboard has changed my life. Sell whatever you're using and buy one. 33 pounds with a great piano and nice GM...
BumSmith -- 06/11/2007, 23:27:45 -- #35118
I bought a floor model from a local (Denver) retailer. Had to call 13 stores before I found any FP-4, and this was their last. It rules. I love the weight, the action feels good, I like the half pedal damper, the onboard speakers are useful and convenient - I played a wedding on Saturday and, though I brought my amp, never had to turn it on - it was a trio bass/drums. I have also found every built in feature to be quite useful; metronome, session partner (customizable changes), onboard usb-midi out, line in for practicing with aebersolds (through the 7w speakers or phones) or providing background music while you're finishing setting up). Honestly, I don't mean to be a fanboy or anything but this keyboard has changed my life. Sell whatever you're using and buy one. 33 pounds with a great piano and nice GM...
BumSmith -- 06/11/2007, 23:29:31 -- #35118
Haha double post! BTW Jazz+ thanks alot for your outspokenness in recommending this keyboard (in many forums). You know your stuff :)
Whacky -- 06/12/2007, 07:17:26 -- #35118
Glad to hear you guys confirm that it's only 32-33 lbs...One website I found said it weighed 52 lbs (they probably confused its specs with the fp7)
Paul -- 06/12/2007, 08:36:07 -- #35118
I looked all over the Dallas/Fortworth area for the fp4. No luck so far.... I found a fp7 but it is a bit on the heavy side. Are the sounds the same on the fp4 and fp7? I'm trying to decide on a Yamaha C30 or the Roland fp4. The price is about the same although the roland comes with built in speakers. any ideas???
Jazz+ -- 06/12/2007, 11:02:04 -- #35118
Get the FP4 for jazz... PM me on the other site about the FP4 (33 lbs) which can be ordered for $1,015 and the FP7 (54 lbs) for $1,220. The sounds are the same but the FP7 adds a couple extra tone wheel organs and bigger speakers. Don't worry, there is stil a good jazz organ on the FP4.
Whacky -- 06/12/2007, 15:58:39 -- #35118
Jazz+ - you've done a great job selling these fp4s...I'm wondering why you have not told us where we can buy one for $1015? That store might welcome a few more sales
mozart2b2002 -- 06/13/2007, 13:29:47 -- #35118
I echo Dr. Whack. It seems that on this and other forums (i.e., Piano World) you keep mentioning the price of $1015. And, as Dr. Whack does above, we all keep asking where did you buy it? For some reason you don't answer that question. Yet, you've made a believer out of all of us on purchasing the FP4.
Whacky -- 06/14/2007, 05:39:54 -- #35118
guess we could wait two years and buy Jazz+'s for $850 :)
BRX -- 06/14/2007, 08:35:20 -- #35118
I got myself one last week. Here in Germany the price is € 1.049,--. It's indeed a great keyboard and the vendors can't stock enough of them.
mozart2b2002 -- 06/14/2007, 17:02:23 -- #35118
Oh well, I guess Jazz+ plans to keep it his secret.
Jazz+ -- 06/14/2007, 20:12:20 -- #35118
Again, pm me thru the other site.
Whacky -- 06/15/2007, 14:53:11 -- #35118
I get it now - "PM" means "private message" - still not sure why it's a secret, but I guess you have your reasons...
Scot -- 06/16/2007, 09:57:01 -- #35118
Don't forget to test play the Yamaha S90es as well. I have one and love it, great piano sound, and good price. Most people who have S90 ES keyboards think they rock.
kensuguro -- 06/18/2007, 09:03:55 -- #35118
btw, something about the fp4 I couldn't understand was, how you'd edit the sounds. Checking out the superior grand sound on the rd700sx, there were a bunch of settings that allowed you to shape the piano's sound. Do those settings exist in fp4? Or are the details only available on rd700sx.
mozart2b2002 -- 06/21/2007, 16:34:19 -- #35118
Jazz+, I want to thank you for the recommendation. My FP4 arrived yesterday and I don't think I could be happier. Nice instrument. Plus, I love the weight. Looked at the FP7 but that thing, as nice as it is, weighs a ton (relatively speaking). The FP4 is incredibly light. I won't mind lugging that around. On the other hand, my Roland KC-550 amp more than makes up for the lack of weight on the FP4. BTW, after much research on the web, I found the piano for $975 plus $37 shipping. Here is the link if anyone is interested: http://www.fullcompass.com/product/335219.html The link is for a white FP4 but I talked them into a black one for the same price.
Jazz+ -- 06/21/2007, 21:27:18 -- #35118
I notice the $975 is for the model in white, the black one at Full Compass is $1,295. My guy does the black model for $1,015, the shipping depends on where you are in the US.
mozart2b2002 -- 06/22/2007, 06:59:34 -- #35118
Actually, I did get the black one for the same price as the white one. Talked them into it. Quite frankly, I would have taken the white one, I really didn't care that much.
mozart2b2002 -- 06/22/2007, 07:51:03 -- #35118
Actually, I did get the black one for the same price as the white one. Talked them into it. Quite frankly, I would have taken the white one, I really didn't care that much.
Whacky -- 06/22/2007, 07:53:37 -- #35118
heh heh - years ago I got an FP8 cheap because it was red - what did I care? - it later became known fondly around town as "The Red Beast" - and a tune under that name was born and recorded on a CD - ya never know
mozart2b2002 -- 06/22/2007, 07:59:57 -- #35118
Sorry for the double post. Not sure how that happened. One of my joys on this if finding Electric Piano #7. The Dr. John album "All by Hisself - Live at the Lonestar" has this really funky piano. Turns out I met a woman who had this old elecric grand piano monstrosity. It clearly was the instrument he plays on that album. I loved playing around on it. Then I found EP #7 on the FP4 and low and behold, it's very similar. I play about 4 songs off of that album, and next time out, I'm gonna switch them to EP 7. Now, let's see if I can get this to post only once.
mozart2b2002 -- 06/22/2007, 08:01:41 -- #35118
One more time, I didn't re-look at the last post before I hit "add" and yes there are typos throughout it. I guess I don't type as well as I think I do.
koalalmate -- 06/22/2007, 11:50:42 -- #35118
I have an old Alesis QS8 that I batter the hell out of and it keeps playing and sounding solid. I love the action, and you can get just about any piano sound imaginable out of it. Wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts or perspective on this keyboard. It's 48 pounds, so not so very light, but I'd by another in a heartbeat...if I had to, but this 10 year-old puppy shows no sign of age. Seriously, I've never had a single issue with it.
g -- 06/23/2007, 07:51:39 -- #35118
Please avoid the Casio's digital pianos. I bought one because it was cheap, and I didn't mind the sound and action, but it broke very quickly (2 weeks ago) I just bought a Yamaha.
mozart2b2002 -- 06/26/2007, 07:59:07 -- #35118
One final thought. I do love the piano. Its sound. My one pet peeve would be the action. Even at its heaviest, the action is very light. Personally, I'd prefer something heavier - more like the action on my old Yamaha p-80. So, if anyone is looking at the FP4, that's my only real criticism.
Jazz+ -- 06/26/2007, 09:36:57 -- #35118
The weight required to press down a key on my FP4 is 72 grams. The average weight, with the pedal down, on a Steinway is 52 grams and 72 grams with the pedal up. I wish my FP4 was 10 grams lighter. You are having impressions based on the differences in the continuous variations of a mass being moved.
Whacky -- 06/26/2007, 11:27:47 -- #35118
Interesting...I tried to find an FP4 at Guitar Center - the keyboard guy there hadn't even heard of it - went so far as to suggest I was mis-informed - I mentioned the FP7 - he looked, and they did have one. I really did not like the action on it. Being ignorant of the science behind it, I found that it was just heavy with poor response - perhaps that can be adjuste???hmmm... I moved on to the Roland RD 700SX, RD 300 and the Yamaha S90es (or whatever it's called). Much to my surprise, I liked the S90 the best - it felt the most natural, the sounds are good and there are lots of em. I think if I were to buy just one gigging board, it would probably be the S90
mozart2b2002 -- 06/26/2007, 15:07:34 -- #35118
Jazz+, where'd you get those figures? I have a 1911 rebuilt Model A Steinway. There is a world of difference in the two touches. I have always found the Steinway to be slightly too heavy for me, but my tech (who does the pianos at SMU) convinced me it was better where it was. The P-80 was lighter but more like a piano. The FP4 is touch is pretty much the same as my old Clavinova CP-4. I also thought the FP7 that I played at Guitar Center to be too light also. Is it just me??
Jazz+ -- 06/26/2007, 17:44:20 -- #35118
A Steinway action can be regulated from very light, around 45 grams to very heavy, around 70 grams, 55 is an average setting. Horrowitz had his set up with a 45 gram downweight for a faster response. The key return is generally faster when the downweight is lighter. There's no such thing as generic, standard grand piano action. All of them are different. There are pianos with very heavy actions and pianos with very light action and everything in between.There are acoustic pianos with deep/shallow key travel, fast/slow key return, etc. My Mason and Hamlin feels lighter IN SOME WAYS than my FP-4. Digital piano actions are like pressing down levers, real piano actions feel more like moving key mass and then there is that escapement point when the key feels lighter right after the jack throws the hammer at the string. I like and need a very light weighted, fast and smooth action. I have little in common with you guys that like real heavy actions, I don't need to push all that extra weight around. A heavy action literally has me pushing hundreds if not thousands of extra pounds over a couple of hours, do the math (number of notes played per minute x grams). I don't need all that extra stress on my old and easily irritated tendons. I like a fast and lite Horrowitz type of action. I can't play Yamaha digital actions., I find them sluggish and they nake my wrists hurt. CURRENT LIVE GEAR: Roland FP4, EV SXa-360 speakers, WS-550 HOME GEAR: Mason & Hamlin piano, Roland SRX12 Rhodes, Fender Rhodes SOLD: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90, Roland RD300SX, Kurzweil PC2X, Electro, Motif, Motion Sound KP-200S, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450, Roland KC350s
mozart2b2002 -- 06/27/2007, 09:43:56 -- #35118
Don't get me wrong. I don't like heavy action and hate real heavy action. Like I said, the action on my Steinway is too heavy. Now that you put the numbers there, I do remember him showing me and I'm pretty sure it sits around 55. It's just that I don't feel I have the control when its too light. But, it's probably just me. When I played at the Van Cliburn Competition for Outstanding Amateurs, I was the only one who seemed to think the action on the competition piano was too light. Either way, the feel is certainly different from the FP4 to the Steinway.
Jazz+ -- 06/27/2007, 10:30:04 -- #35118
Friction is also a big factor. You can have a heavy action that meets a lot of friction and a heavy action that does not encounter much friction.
Jazz+ -- 06/27/2007, 10:31:18 -- #35118
You get used to what you usually play on. It takes time to get used to playing on a lighter action if you are used to playing a heavy action.
Jazz+ -- 06/27/2007, 10:43:18 -- #35118
A lot of teachers equate heavier, more sluggish actions with being better. A lot of real pianos do suffer from sluggish, heavy actions. So, teachers assume that's normal. It takes more control to play a lighter weighted action, they are faster and the arm weight control needs more finesse. So, many folks assume they get better control with heavy actions. Horowitz had his Steinway set extremely light (for speed and ease) with only 45 grams of down-weight pressure required at middle C (when the pedal was down)!
mozart2b2002 -- 06/27/2007, 11:03:35 -- #35118
I asked this question once to a fairly well known concert pianist. He replied that most concert pianists like the piano for the performance to be very light. However, most also prefer to practice on a piano with slightly heavier action. I will say that I got to play a few hours on a Steinway at Steinway Hall in Naples that used to belong to Oscar Peterson. That was extremely light. And, I might add, extremely bright. But you're right, I'll get used to the FP4. It's just a matter of time.
jmkarns -- 06/27/2007, 13:47:20 -- #35118
I played on Horowitz's Steinway back in '92 when it was touring the country. I do recall it had a light touch.
Paul -- 06/28/2007, 11:58:28 -- #35118
I went to Guitar Center today and the salesman also never heard of the FP-4. I tryed an FP-7 and I liked the piano, an electric piano sound and the jazz organ. The rest of the sounds didn't do much for me. The feel was light but I like it that way. They had some Yamaha "P" series and all of them were quit heavy in the action. Pretty good sounds though... I loved the sounds and feel of the Yamaha 90ES but it cost a grand more than I have to spend. At this point I think I'll go with an FP-4 unless I can find a good deal on a Yamaha 90.
Whacky -- 06/28/2007, 16:23:51 -- #35118
yeah I figure I can probably pull down 3 grand a year playing gigs, so with the S90 plus gas, I should break even :)
Jazz+ -- 06/28/2007, 18:30:34 -- #35118
I gigged with a S90ES for several weeks. It's Piano 1 didn't have as much presence as the FP4 I'm using now. The S90ES Piano had a piano tone that has a mid range tone, it's overtones were not very noticeable or bright when playing live. The FP4 has a piano timber that is dark in tone but at the same time has very noticeable bright resonant overtones. The S90ES weighed 50 lbs, the FP4 weighs 33 pounds and I'm much happier gigging with that improvement. I also can play fast with more ease on the FP4. My chops were getting tired ion the S90ES.
DrJazz -- 07/09/2007, 17:44:41 -- #35118
It's a matter of personal taste at the end of the day. I've never liked Roland acoustic piano sounds (despite owning a Roland A90) and saying the FP4 has the same sample as the RD700 is NOT a recommendation in my book. However, I do plan to check out the FP4 in the light of what's been said so often above!... I think Yamaha definitely have the edge for acoustic piano sounds but I HATE the Rhodes/eclectric sounds on their P series boards. So for me it's always been a problem finding a single keyboard that sounds good in both electric and acoustic settings. I agree with Scot, the Yamaha S90ex has some of the best sounds I've heard (electric AND acoustic, for once). But I've never played it on a gig. What puts me off getting it (apart from the price and weight) is the very large number of knobs and buttons - I really don't need all that midi controller bullshit... And the digital menus for setting effect and other parameters are cumbersome in the extreme. When are keyboard designers going to produce keyboards like this with old-style gig-friendly controls - eg: sliders? Tim
Jazz+ -- 07/09/2007, 20:18:14 -- #35118
Please, there is a world of difference between the old RD-700 and the current RD-700SX. The old RD-700 Piano 1 sampling was awful, and so was the A90. The new RD-700SX, FP7, and FP4 are the first Rolands to sample every single key and at four dynamic levels. The samples are entirely new Steinway samples.
DrJazz -- 07/12/2007, 18:48:21 -- #35118
I stand corrected! How recently were these new Roland piano samples introduced? Maybe It was the RD-700 I tried and not the RD-700SX. I'll reserve my judgement until I've checked out these latest boards... A friend (whose opinion I respect) has just purchased the RD-300SX, which he seems pleased with, so maybe Roland have got their act together at last?
Paul -- 07/12/2007, 20:49:16 -- #35118
After much research I just got the Yamaha MO8. The keys feel nice, the aocustic pianos sound good (prefectly acceptable for a trio or solo gig)and the electric piano sounds are fantastic. The basses are good and the guitars aren't bad. Good strings, horrilbe brass and silly lead synths. A couple of pretty flutes and a few good organs. I haven't dealt with the sequencer.... It weighs 40lbs so it's a bit heavy but it's managable for me. The Roland FP-4 was actractive in terms of it's weight and built in speakers but really there were only in my oppinion 3 usablesounds-thefirst piano, one of the electric pianos and an organ. I feel a grand is a lot of money to spend on something that delivers so little. Please don't be ofended Jazz+. If I had the money the Yamaha S90 would be my first choice although it's a bit too bulky (I think it's 50lbs) And the 88 key motifs are just too freakin' huge to play on little gigs. Anyhow the MO8 sounds are allmost as good as the Motiff and s90 and the price was right. BTW, I paid $1100 for the MO8. It was going for $1599.99 and I told them $1300 was my limit including taxes. I got the saleman to take $200 of the $1300 in exchange for my roland RS9. The Roland RS piano sound wanted to make me puke every time I played it in a jazz trio. Tomorrow night I have an outdoor gig with a small big band, Sat a restuarant gig with a jazz trio and Sun a dance gig with a very loud latin band. If anyone is interested I'll report back.
Jazz+ -- 07/13/2007, 13:58:10 -- #35118
There are 300 sounds in the Roland FP4, all from Roland's top of the line Fantom. I think you didn't check them all out. And what sounds does a jazz pianist really need beyond piano, Rhodes, bass, and organ? Vibes, steel drums, flute? There are excellent samples of all that in the FP4. The S90 was discontinued 2 years ago, you must mean S90ES. Which piano in the MO8 are you planning to use? Is yours an ES ?
Paul -- 07/15/2007, 16:49:15 -- #35118
I did spend 2hrs on FP-4 and found the MO8 better suited for me in terms of feel and sounds. Don't get me wrong, the FP-4 is a nice econmical and light weight axe, but it just didn't do it for me. I also compared the MO8 to the S90ES, Motiff ES8 and overall I thought the overall sound quality to be comparable. As far as the piano sounds I've used, the full grand, dark grand and concert grand work well for my jazz groups and I used the rock piano for my salsa gig today. Since I bought the board four days ago, between practing and giging, I put in at least 20 hrs playing it and have no signs of pain. Also I did not tell in of the musicians I play with that I got a new keyboard and they all noticed right away. Even the owner on the restuarant where the trio I work with comented on the sound. Granted, what I was using before was garbage (Roland RS-9) I just that others might be interested in this keyboard. I hadn't heard anything about it
viviencutino -- 08/17/2008, 07:37:37 -- #35118
Hello Everybody I have a new FP 4 since 2 days im so lucky with it. BUT IS IT NORMAL THAT THERE IS A CURRENT NOISE FROM THE INTERNAL SPEAKERS?????????WHEN I PLUG IN MY HEADPHONES OR MY COMPUTER ITS GONE. PLEASE HELP I WOULD HATE 2 SEND IT BACK 2 ROLAND. PEACE VIVIEN
viviencutino -- 08/17/2008, 07:38:30 -- #35118
Hello Everybody I have a new ROLAND FP 4 STAGEPIANO since 2 days im so lucky with it. BUT IS IT NORMAL THAT THERE IS A CURRENT NOISE FROM THE INTERNAL SPEAKERS?????????WHEN I PLUG IN MY HEADPHONES OR MY COMPUTER ITS GONE. PLEASE HELP I WOULD HATE 2 SEND IT BACK 2 ROLAND. PEACE VIVIEN
charlp88 -- 08/18/2008, 06:52:18 -- #35118
Dos anyone have a comment on the YAMAHA " NOCTURNE" thx
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