| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Improv question | |
| glynn -- 07/22/2007, 20:58:54 -- #36013 | |
| Just got back from the pub, and Im not in an articulate mood so bear with me. Using RN analysis (I, II, III etc) I found that many jazz pieces use II-V-I sequences in different Keys during a song. We also know that II-V-I sequences can be improvised over by using the major scale of I (eg: C major scale over Dm7-G7-CM). Given these two amazing relevations (amazing for me), would I be correct to suggest that I could use the major scale of the key the song is in, to help my note choices (other than chord tones), for that part of the piece? whew! | |
| Scot -- 07/22/2007, 22:05:16 -- #36013 | |
| Not necessarily the key the song is in, you would want to be in the key that the 2-5-1 went to. Is that what you meant? It's like driving down a highway or skiing. You don't stare are your hood ornament or the tips of your skis, you look ahead to see what's coming. So if you have a 2-5 leading into Eb, even if the song is in C, playing notes that will fit into Eb will work better than notes that fit into C. Sometimes I do an exercise where I start leading into section and key changes several measures ahead. It's a nice exercise, gets your mind really working. Say I'm doing F blues and the 4 chord (Bb) is coming up on bar 5. For the exercise, I might start on bar 3 and start working the 2-5 into Bb. Or I might start on bar 1 actually and start working that 2-5 into Bb. Try starting an F blues with a Cm7 for two chords and an F7 for two chords. I know I went off on a complete tangent, but I'm feeling verbose at the moment :) | |
| glynn -- 07/23/2007, 01:56:46 -- #36013 | |
| ya man that what I was on about, playing the major scales of the I chord of each different key. How does this leading stuff work, I'v tried it before with minimal success. | |
| DrJazz -- 07/31/2007, 17:33:00 -- #36013 | |
| Equally as common as II - V - I are unresolved II - V sequences. By this I mean ones that do not include the tonic or I chord, so you get chord sequences like this: Am7 D7 - Dm7 G7 or Cm7 F7 - Bbm7 Eb7 - Am7 D7 - Ebm7 Ab7 Each of these chord pairs has the same scale, but rather than thinking of (for example) Am7 D7 having a scale of G major (when it never resolves to G), think of it having a DORIAN scale on A (ABCDEF#G). Although this has the same notes as G major, I believe that this gives a more musical result, as the scale you've chosen has a more direct relationship with the chord. And you don't have to waste valuable time working out what major scale to use - as long as you've learnt your Dorian scales... The same applies to a II - V - I: start with the DORIAN scale on the minor chord, which will also be OK for the V chord. THEN after that, you can think of it as major scale over the I chord. | |
| smg -- 08/06/2007, 16:57:45 -- #36013 | |
| http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1318875 gets into this and probably is a good place to start exploring the theory behind note choices.....then take a look here for more..... | |
| smg -- 08/06/2007, 17:00:43 -- #36013 | |
| http://chrisjuergensen.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/improvisation%20guide.htm (BTW the rest of this guys' site is definitely worth checking out as well..........) | |
| smg -- 08/06/2007, 17:02:42 -- #36013 | |
| then if you want you can go here.. http://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?action=files&sub=file_details&id=1075846998 | |
| glynn -- 08/07/2007, 16:11:19 -- #36013 | |
| Thanks alot, that stuff helped quite alot. All theory aside, when I try to solo I try and 'rewrite' extended versions of the melodies as I feel that this sounds best in a song with melodic complexities. Most of the time this incorporates the notes of the chords or scales, but for me it sounds better if I highlight parts of the melody which may not be covered by chords etc. When using this method (I assume im not uncommon), do you 'rewrite' alternative melodies or does it just come out in your playing of improvised chords scales etc...? | |
| jmkarns -- 08/07/2007, 20:50:37 -- #36013 | |
| After viewing the above site I guess I'm a "phrase guy". Hopefully not too derivative, but I find that I like to explore standard songs in new ways. Another helpful site is www.realbook.us which lets you change the key of a song even though they only list the chords, so.. you need to know the right hand melody pretty well. | |
| smg -- 08/08/2007, 15:31:01 -- #36013 | |
| re-two posts above.... -'rewrite' extended versions of the melodies/do you 'rewrite' alternative melodies or does it just come out in your playing of improvised chords scales etc...? -"phrase guy Both of these seem to refer to equally valid improv approaches,which depend on an individual players' influences/conception and are viable to the extent the given playing situation allows(i.e. if you're the pianist in a group that digs what your solos sound like or not/playing a solo gig where the club owner/audience wants to hear a certain style,etc........semantics and value judgements aside,focusing on "melodic improv"(Sonny Rollins in the late fifties was considered the master of this technique where motive fragments of the tunes' original melody are used...I'm not sure if this is what glynn is talking about) or "stringing together phrases"(using original/borrowed melodic ideas/patterns) are both ways to develop soloing ability....take a look at some of the online sites that get into this stuff to clarify your conception.......... | |
| smg -- 08/08/2007, 16:38:59 -- #36013 | |
| Here's another relevant link http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=JAZZ&Category_Code=_IAJE | |
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