Scot Ranney's LearnJazzPiano.com archive: Name this tune

LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Name this tune
Mike -- 08/28/2007, 01:51:20 -- #36605
1 67 27 27 2 5 1 (5-7 17) 4 4- 1 67 27 27 2 5 these are the first 16 bars only
jazz jasper -- 08/28/2007, 06:52:57 -- #36605
what does 1 =?
Whacky -- 08/28/2007, 07:57:46 -- #36605
Indiana?
hepcatmonk -- 08/28/2007, 11:23:19 -- #36605
Back Home Again in Indiana, or Donna Lee? hm
rewsnat -- 08/28/2007, 11:30:18 -- #36605
can't be donna lee... the 2 on the second line isn't a minor chord.. and so is the 2 in the last line...
jmkarns -- 08/28/2007, 11:52:26 -- #36605
1 should be 16 and 2 should be 2m7
CynBad -- 08/28/2007, 14:40:29 -- #36605
I thought those were scale tones, not chord symbols!
jazz jasper -- 08/28/2007, 15:21:48 -- #36605
me too!
rewsnat -- 08/28/2007, 15:51:03 -- #36605
Mike - why don't you record a solo over these 16 bars and upload it here. I guess we will have a better chance of getting the right answer that way.. :D
Whacky -- 08/28/2007, 17:38:45 -- #36605
Maybe they're Mike's lottery numbers?
Mike -- 08/29/2007, 04:07:08 -- #36605
It is Donna Lee. hepcat is the winner. The first chord on the second line is the II chord. Donna Lee in Ab is Ab F7 Bb7 Bb7 Bb-7 Eb7 Ab Eb-7 Ab7 etc you see rewsnat and jk you only have to write in the min and the 7 etc if it is different from the norm. so for example if you are on stage and and the banleader says its a 2 5. Do not expect to be told it is a two minor seven.... five seven. However if it was a Two major this would have to be specified. if you see a number the diatonic is function is assumed unless otherwise specified. this is the rule.
Mike -- 08/29/2007, 04:11:00 -- #36605
also major six and major seven chords are theoretically same chord in analysis and are not really differentiated except in detail. The type of thing I was throwing out was a Nashville system type analysis. A practical analysis that we all use for instance when we are on satage and time is of the essence.
Mike -- 08/29/2007, 04:13:17 -- #36605
no one specifies wheterh ti is a 2 5 1 major 7 chord or a 2 5 1 major 6 chord on stage at least not in my 35 or so years on stage.
Mike -- 08/29/2007, 04:14:39 -- #36605
Oh Sorry Dr. Whack I guess you had the answer first with Indiana. Congrats.
jmkarns -- 08/29/2007, 07:40:46 -- #36605
When I'm on stage we already have all this worked out. It's called rehearsal. (I play in a duo).
Whacky -- 08/29/2007, 07:58:14 -- #36605
rehearsal; schmehearsal :) thanks Dr. Mike...
CynBad -- 08/29/2007, 13:16:31 -- #36605
Mike, next time use Roman Numerals for us anal types.
jazz jasper -- 08/29/2007, 15:56:57 -- #36605
Yeah!!!
Mike -- 08/30/2007, 22:23:10 -- #36605
the reason i did was because i was experimenting with the Nashville system which does not use roman numerals and is geared towards live performance and the recording stydio. Is anyone here proficient with the Nashville System?
Mike -- 08/30/2007, 22:29:45 -- #36605
Reahearsals... Yuck. In general I am pretty anti rehearsal these days. The circumstances under which I will agree to an unpaid reahearsl are limited. If someone thinks they are bandleader and I am going to go to a reahearsal they definetly have to pay me or I do not even consider for a second going. Likewise I have several ensemble projects on the drawing board all of which I intend to pay for rehearsal time if I rehearse the ensembles which in itself is questionable. I have rehearsed a lot in my life. I regret most all rehearsals. Really out the thousands of gigs I have done in my thirty some years of giging not one of my gigs paid enough to deserve a rehearsal or merited the importance that was given to it by actually barf, wheez, snort, rehearsing.
Whacky -- 08/31/2007, 07:09:41 -- #36605
In my over thirty years of playing for a living, I can't think of one rehearsal that actually paid off - most people screw up and you have to go with whatever happens on the gig anyway - so why rehearse?
Whacky -- 08/31/2007, 07:12:55 -- #36605
...and good players either don't screw up or they are very good at smoothing over the mistakes
Whacky -- 08/31/2007, 07:24:24 -- #36605
now I did benefit from the "paid" show rehearsals, but we were learning when to play and when not to play - that had nothing to do with the music itself - it was expected that the players had that part covered.
jazz jasper -- 08/31/2007, 08:27:20 -- #36605
If your a pro, you shouldn't need a rehersal, like whack said its expected that you have it sorted. Once when the musical director was ill, it was my job as assitant to get up and conduct... because of money and the producers not willing to pay to rehearse the band with me there was no rehersal, the first time I had a chance to play with the band with me conducting was when I gave the down beat with a room full of 1000 people. Rehersals are not needed.
jazz jasper -- 08/31/2007, 08:28:12 -- #36605
well not a room, a theatre
jmkarns -- 08/31/2007, 08:30:04 -- #36605
Really just threw the "rehearsal" thing out there to get some feedback. An hour a week seems to work for my vocalist and I just to go over new material. The rest of the time we cover what we need on our own time. Come to think of it, maybe that hour of "rehearsal" could become another gig. Hmm. I have read that Miles was not big on rehearsals either.
jazz jasper -- 08/31/2007, 09:48:30 -- #36605
When I first started playing in restaurants I used to practice with my brother (double bass) for hours, and whenever we thought about approaching restaurants we used to say 'no no, wait till we are really really good, then we can go and ask for work' One day we just decided to bit the bullet and ask, and we got invited to play, anyway after a few weeks we realised 1, no one was listening, and B, we could rehearse on the gig. We kept bringing in new stuff every week and rehersing it on the spot on the gig, no one noticed and it sounded fine. When you think about it - how hard can it be? All you need to do is read the arrangment and then solo off the changes, its not like a classical recital where people gather round to listen to you interpret the music and every note must be whats on the page. With jazz, the whole point is that your FREE!!!!!!!!! (well most of the time).
7 -- 08/31/2007, 10:49:03 -- #36605
Until this thread, I thought that I was very familiar with the Nashville system (having done so many C$W gigs reading off Nashville style charts). I'm pretty sure the Nashville system uses roman numerals and not arabic numbers. If called out vocally "IV7", it would be pronounced "four seven" and not "aye-vee seven", but I have never seen the symbol (for example) 47 on a chart to indicate a dominant seventh chord built off the fourth degree. As regards rehearsals, it depends on your goals. For example my current bass player is a teacher at MI in L.A. and he is a total fanatic about practice and rehearsal. In his mind, the only way "grok" other musicians is to spend a lot of time playing with them. Also rehearsals give a chance for musicians to verbally talk about hints and ideas that can be worked into the arrangement. If you're just talking about generic rundowns of fake book arrangements, maybe no rehearsals are needed. But is you're dealing with original material, at some point there has to be communication as to what the composer expects of the other band members - which almost inevitably means "rehearsal" (no matter how specific a chart may be).
Whacky -- 08/31/2007, 12:20:42 -- #36605
I do believe the original Nashville Number system uses arabic (regular) numbers. Here's a good ole boy splainin it: http://www.alanhorvath.com/LSN5.php Nowadays, boys with edumacation use Roman numerals. I did sessions in Nashville and we used chord charts :)
Mike -- 08/31/2007, 13:51:31 -- #36605
Thanks Dr. Whack. Some of the confusion lies in that the Nashville dudes I know and have played with before are mfers who are highly trained and of course know the Roman numeral system and use it when that is called for. But the Nashville System refers to something slightly different. Something more what it is explained in the good Doctors Link. Really we all use the Nashville system from time to time without knowing it. Have you not been at a jam session where you aay to the guitar player... "ITs just a 1 4 5" ,,, This is the Nashville system. Notice when you do this that you do not specify that the 5 chord is a dominant seven chord. nor do you specify whehter the I chord is a six chord or a major seven chord. Well at least this is the Nashville system to the best of my knowledge at this point. I started this thread because I am trying to learn it. If i end up thinking I may be wrong I suppose I will send an E to my friend who is currently a workin dude in Nashville currently.
pphilip -- 09/01/2007, 05:53:46 -- #36605
Years ago whenever I was gigless and had to resort to playing with a country band, I remember them saying, " It's a 1-4-5 with some of them 'off' chords thrown in." And BTW, most bass players are fanatics and usually teachers and frustrated piano players.
Whacky -- 09/01/2007, 07:22:00 -- #36605
For what it's worth, those folks in Nashville are serious musicians. The first time I witnessed a "first call players" session, I went back to St. Louis with my tail between my legs. I'm glad I wasn't actually playing on it. They would have thrown me out on my pooper:)
Mike -- 09/02/2007, 00:07:58 -- #36605
just because you mentioned it pphillip someone just emailed me this def of bass players so I thought I would share: Bass: Bassists are not terribly smart. The best bassists come to terms with their limitations by playing simple lines and rarely soloing. During the better musical moments, a bassist will pull his strings hard and grunt like an animal. Bass players are built big, with paws for hands, and they are always bent over awkwardly. If you talk to the bassist during a break, you will not be able to tell whether or not he's listening.
pphilip -- 09/02/2007, 03:44:47 -- #36605
LOL. I didn't mean that bass players aren't good musicians. It's having to deal with the constant theory lesson. Usually I say," just shut the f up and play, man." Then you can enjoy the night.
jmkarns -- 09/02/2007, 19:13:36 -- #36605
No I think there is something to this. In a more positive note, the bass players I have known, and I am not talking about someone who doubles on the instrument, but a REAL live full-time bass player. They tend to be more conceputual in their playing. I would direct you to Albetan's site where he lays the foundation for different players and their styles. (horn, vocal, piano, etc.)
Mike -- 09/02/2007, 21:42:06 -- #36605
Actually both the best muscians I have played with in my life have been bass players. Kevin Frieson in West Virginia and Richard Hill of Massachusetts. But back to the Nashville System thing for a minute. I think the problem I created here. I think the Nashvile system is meant to be a spoken system. I think they would not use it in a written context like I did. If they were writing I think they would use Roman numverals like every one requested me to. I think the Nashville system is a system for stage or live situations when you are calling out the changes to someone but not being specific about the key. As in saying its a " 1, 4, 5 " or in the case of Donna Lee you would call out its a " 1 67 27 27 2 5 1 (5-7 17) 4 4- 1 67 27 27 2 5"
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