| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Bossas | |
| superjames -- 09/09/2007, 03:12:53 -- #36925 | |
| Do people like to play with a straight eighth feel or a swing feel on bossas? I am having trouble feeling comfortable on bossas - when I play straight eight notes it feels a bit boring (especially on slow bossas), if I try and play 16th notes it feels like im just chopping out, and when I play with more of a swing feel it feels like I'm playing something entirely different to the other rhythm players. Any advice would be appreciated. Also what are some good albums to get with piano bossas happening? Thanks | |
| albetan -- 09/09/2007, 16:08:34 -- #36925 | |
| In bossanova you must perform straight eighths. Please see lesson Learning bossa in Latin corner. In latin music you may play with swing feeling only when you are playing Latin jazz or Latin swing. | |
| albetan -- 09/09/2007, 16:15:36 -- #36925 | |
| For bossas and sambas and brazilian folk music please go to: http://www.ethosbrasil.com/nav/partit.htm See: Chega de Saudade (Tom Jobim) Corcovado (Tom Jobim) Insensatez (Tom & Vinícius) Triste (Tom Jobim) Wave (Tom Jobim) Desafinado Tom Jobim) | |
| jmkarns -- 09/09/2007, 20:01:12 -- #36925 | |
| Jobim pretty much wrote the book. Check out Blue Bossa as well. | |
| Mike -- 09/10/2007, 00:44:34 -- #36925 | |
| To play the bossa correctly or in the idiom the 1/8ths but sometimes if when in an ensemble if everyone else is laying down the bossa nice and solid it opens it up nicely for you to properly irratate and remind everyone else we are in Amerika and swing on top of the Bossa and it can be a good thing. A sort of poly rhythm that can be a wicked gas man. | |
| SolArt -- 09/10/2007, 02:12:22 -- #36925 | |
| Get a good book on Latin Music. You have to feel the clave. I love latin Music, it's like a breath of fresh air & so infectious. | |
| superjames -- 09/10/2007, 03:25:48 -- #36925 | |
| Gracias! | |
| albetan -- 09/10/2007, 20:59:21 -- #36925 | |
| Nice videos about Tom Jobim performing bossanovas: Desafinado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPslNawn8VI The Girl from Ipanema: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QanHP3ppgA8 Aqua de beber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IINpTQPoNTQ One note samba: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z3H8x_b5So Wave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwLJhBzs-jo Chega de saudade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gNkp_RtL_4 Corcovado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9oPZlGOc6M | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/11/2007, 00:00:17 -- #36925 | |
| Master Brazilian pianist Marcos Silva says: "I don't know anybody in Brazil who plays the bossa nova with the clave rhythm. In other words, this whole simplification that says you take the samba clave rhythm and you move the last beat one click later, and now you got your bossa nova, it's just not true. The clave - we don't have that instrument in Brazil. So the thing about the clave and Brazilian music, I don't know where it comes from. These claves, bongos, and so on, if you hear them in Brazilian music they are just enhancement. They are not part of the music. In Brazilian music, the harmony and melody dictate where the music is going." Full article with examples here: http://www.megatar.com/documents/newsletter/Oct01-v2-i2/oct01-v2-i2.html#article1 | |
| albetan -- 09/11/2007, 08:20:10 -- #36925 | |
| Sure, Jazz+, Brazilian musicians hate the word "clave" speaking about bossa. There is an accented beat played by wood-block or on edge of drums in bossa patern that many people (no Brazilians) confuse with a "clave": wood-block |x x x | x x | timing |1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - |1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - | bass |b b b b |b b b b | | |
| Paul -- 09/11/2007, 10:24:48 -- #36925 | |
| true, Brazilian music does not have a strict clave pattern (or instrument) like cuban music does. However there are certainly typical patterns such as the one Albtan outlined that you should be familiar with if you want to play bossa nova. | |
| CynBad -- 09/11/2007, 14:00:42 -- #36925 | |
| I believe "clave" belongs to Afro-Caribbean music, not to Brazilian or bossa. Also, Brazilians do not consider themselves "Latin". Different languages, too. | |
| jazzpianoonline -- 09/14/2007, 18:42:48 -- #36925 | |
| yes always play bossa in straight eighths. THE bossa tune is blue bossa on joe henderson's page one record. in latin music the piano has one foot in the percussion section by playing lots of repetitive rhythms. hope this helps br webmaster@jazzpianoonline.com http://www.jazzpianoonline.com | |
| superjames -- 09/15/2007, 07:59:29 -- #36925 | |
| I'm sure I read in one of the Mark Levine books that the done thing on jazz bossas is to play swing eights, and only occasionally to play straight eights. Should I just ignore this? | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/15/2007, 12:22:48 -- #36925 | |
| No, don't play real jazz swing eighths. A tiny degree of offset is cool, but not the triplet thing. Also, accent some of the "+"s in the even eighths to make Latin "swing" | |
| DrJazz -- 09/20/2007, 15:59:14 -- #36925 | |
| The 'clave' as described by Albetan above is often played by jazz drummers on a Bossa. Maybe it's not correct from a purist Brazilian point of view, but it is widespread! I think the problem is that the bossa style has become part of jazz and has developed a life of its own outside of Brazil, for good or for bad... A more authentic rhythm to play over a Bossa is the PARTIDO ALTO. Here it is in quavers over two bars: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + X X X X X X X The 3rd, 4th and 5th notes are OFF the beat, all others are ON. Like the clave, it can also be reversed: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + X X X X X X X | |
| DrJazz -- 09/20/2007, 16:02:25 -- #36925 | |
| Sorry, the crosses didn't format correctly! Let's try another way. Play on 1, 2, 3and, 4and, 1and, 3, 4. Or for 'reversed' Partido Alto: 1and, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3and, 4and. | |
| MoJazz -- 09/20/2007, 18:12:08 -- #36925 | |
| I played with some vet jazzers who told me there were different types of Bossas/Sambas during the early 60's when Bossa was the "new sound" (literally) in jazz. They said there was Bossa Nova, Bossa Rock, Bossa Swing, Slow Bossa, Samba Funk. etc. They were creating various styles that were apart from pure Bossa Nova. They knew the difference. | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/20/2007, 21:30:20 -- #36925 | |
| "Sidewinder" was played in a "bossa jazz rock" style. Make Me A Memory by Grover Washington is a "funk bossa". Funk samba is very common among fusion players and smooth jazz players. Morning Dance by Spyro Gyra is marked "Samba/Funk". "This Masquerade" as played by George Benson is marked Latin Funk | |
| paulF99 -- 09/21/2007, 11:38:45 -- #36925 | |
| Dr Jazz (Tim), Yes that Partido Alto rhythm is just the thing for Bossas, but quite a hard trick to master in the left hand while soloing with the right. Just about getting there after a several weeks practice. | |
| DrJazz -- 09/24/2007, 16:30:24 -- #36925 | |
| Hi Paul! IMHO it's not strictly necessary to play the complete Partido Alto pattern in the LH underneath your solo. Just playing SOME of the hits is good, and NOT going against it is of course desirable. But just being aware of it is useful, and using it for comping during intros and beneath other people's solos. Also, try to check whether the drummer might be stating it so you can lock in with it. | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/24/2007, 22:36:33 -- #36925 | |
| I also sometimes use the partido alto rhythm while comping. I find it too distracting, unnecessary, and difficult to play in the left hand while I am soloing. | |
| paulF99 -- 09/25/2007, 04:19:36 -- #36925 | |
| Dr Jazz/Jazz+ Yes, agree it's not necessary or desirable to use partido alto all the time, but if you want to do it, even for a little while, you have to have spent some time mastering it. I have to say it is one of the more difficult ones I have come across. | |
| Jazz+ -- 10/20/2007, 18:20:09 -- #36925 | |
| Bossa left hand in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBBBogLsg7c | |
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