| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: improvisation | |
| Stuart -- 06/08/2004, 02:33:45 -- #4813 | |
| Hi, I'm new to the site here. Started piano two years ago (i'm 16) and have come on real well. I already play trumpet. I'm just wondering if anyone can help me here. I'm bored of playing blues scales all the time......any help on how to advance to playing over chords and which scales to use? any replies would be grately appreciated! Stu | |
| albetan -- 06/08/2004, 05:11:09 -- #4814 | |
| Hi Stuart: Please go to "Jazz lesson rooms"- Please go also to search engine (upwards at right corner) and write "beginning improvisation" selecting "files". | |
| smg -- 06/08/2004, 10:43:34 -- #4820 | |
| check the link in the post just above this one...if you want I can post a link to a site that has transcriptions of some very hip trumpet players(like Woody Shaw)whose ideas and patterns are definitely something to get into practicing on piano as well..... | |
| Stuart -- 06/08/2004, 13:27:21 -- #4832 | |
| yeah please could you poste link to the site. that would be very hepful. Always looking for new ideas!! | |
| 7 -- 06/08/2004, 22:49:20 -- #4842 | |
| ` "What scales over what chords?" Remember that a four note chord already has four consonant "safe tones" to work with. A five note chord is already a scale in itself. Any other non-chord tones you may choose to insert between chord tones will, of course, be the best sounding ones. Between a minor third interval there are only two chromatics. One will definitely be a "correct" note while the other is usually (but not always) wrong. There are more permutations of note choices inside the interval of a major third, but as long as your ear is your guide you'll pick correctly. The "correct scale" to play over chord X also differs according to context. It will tend give a strong nod to the current underlying tonal center. This means that when faced with a decision of which non-chord tones to use in your melody lines, a note consonant with the main scale of the tonal center is often a good choice. We are still talking about scales here, and once you have defined the line that you intend to play over said chord, it might be a good idea to find out what it's commonly called and analyze it to see what makes it tick. Or not, that's up to you. In any case, it's not about scales - it's about riffs. "A scale isn't music any more than a pile of bricks is a house" 7 PS: The so called "pentatonic" is actually a six note scale (1 b3 4 b5 5 b7). There are many other five note scales (or five note combinations if you prefer) that sound quite satisfying. Even with seemingly so "few" notes. For a listing of wierd scales check out: http://www.geocities.com/scaleopia/ | |
| gsandberg -- 06/09/2004, 02:20:38 -- #4847 | |
| Now hang on 7, the scale you are referring to, 1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 is the blues scale and itīs not a pentatonic scale. A pentatonic scale has always five notes with no half steps. If it has any halfsteps then itīs an altered pentatonic scale. | |
| smg -- 06/09/2004, 07:38:01 -- #4850 | |
| Here you go- http://www.shout.net/~jmh/ http://www.woodyshaw.com/transcriptions.htm I think WS is a good player to study because his ideas are based on a lot of the concepts that are as contemporary as any 2004 player uses...... | |
| Peteboypete -- 06/09/2004, 11:53:39 -- #4852 | |
| This is another good one that a trumpet playing friend of mine gave to me: http://www.jazztrumpetsolos.com/ | |
| 7 -- 06/09/2004, 23:35:10 -- #4862 | |
| Just nitpicking but "1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 is the blues scale" actually it's *a* blues scale not *the* blues scale :) | |
| gsandberg -- 06/10/2004, 01:35:51 -- #4863 | |
| And Im nitpicking back...;-)...the official, accepted scale known as the blues scale is: 1 b3 4 b5 5 b7. One can play a blues with other scales, sometimes when I play a bluestune I use all the notes in the chromatic scale but I donīt call a chromatic scale a blues scale because I want to be able to communicate with fellow musicians, therefore I use the most accepted names for things. | |
| docz -- 06/11/2004, 11:02:18 -- #4869 | |
| What about 1 b3 3 5 b6 6 b7? A widely used blues scale... Doc-Z | |
| marksdg -- 06/15/2004, 15:45:39 -- #4941 | |
| I used to always improvise based on the chord that was happening at the time (doing what "7" suggested of knowing the chord tones and adding some notes in between). Albetan posted something about using pentatonics (and by extension blues scales) over chord changes on Satin Doll, and that really helped improve my playing. In particular, I found it helped me on a piece like 'Round Midnight, where there are many chord changes. Switching between pentatonics (and blues scales)for just a few chords creates a consistency to the solo that can 'float' over the chord changes. Somtimes you can even tolerate fairly dissonant sounds between the solo and the chord, as long as the solo is carrying a coherent line, which is easier to generate with a known scale. | |
| Sax'n -- 06/30/2004, 07:47:51 -- #5250 | |
| This is just from personal experience, but I found that my soloing really took off after I let go of the idea of scales altogether. I mean, scales are a good foundation -- and they are a good place to start if you are dealing with a difficult progression that's unfamiliar to the ears. However, I found that after a few years of dealing with this scale or that scale to solo over a piece my playing was somewhat repetitive, boring, whatever. Basically I was stuck in a rut. So with a little ear training and practice with chromatics, I believe that you can eventually dispense with worrying with scales altogether. That approach has had a profound effect on my playing, and I was wondering if anyone else has gone through the same process. | |
| smg -- 06/30/2004, 08:51:41 -- #5252 | |
| Yeah Sax'n this kind of concept is part of what's behind the ideas in the file at 360 degrees called "Developing..." | |
| smg -- 06/30/2004, 08:56:15 -- #5253 | |
| BTW-I remember you now re-your introduction post-that stuff I was referring to over at "composition" got deleted when Scot did some work on the site a while back I think,it was when this new site first went up;if you are interested in dealing with composition-related stuff let me know;like I posted before,we have a similar background re-coming from the same instrument..... | |
| Sax'n -- 07/04/2004, 06:35:19 -- #5374 | |
| Really? Well, then you know what I was talking about regarding composition difficulties then... I have to admit things are getting better since I posted that message. I'm starting to get a better ear for naming specific chords, although anything beyond four-note chords sometimes is a little difficult still. I'll get there, though. I still can't believe that one can have such an ear for soloing over chords/progressions and yet when it comes time to identify them by name there are times I can't tell certain major7/minor7 inversions apart! What IS that?!? | |
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