| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: a problem with left hand | |
| Kabar -- 07/01/2004, 05:12:24 -- #5281 | |
| hello everyone, I play piano for 7 years, but always played only classics :/ now I want to play boogie, blues, etc. I know some left hand patterns but when want to add some improvisation in right hand... the left hand is collapsing :( is it the only matter of training? thx for answers | |
| Mike -- 07/01/2004, 05:52:09 -- #5282 | |
| well in a sence, all piano playing is only a matter of training isnt it? The trick is to practice it slower. When you think you are practicing it slow enough... practice it slower still... Practice with a metronome on. Try Quarter note = 60. 1.) pracitice just your left hand boogie part at quarter note = 60 (these tempos may seem boring but it is critical to this method that you remain patient and stick to these tempos... remain patient and relax) 2.) practice just your left hand boogie line and play just the chords in the right hand on the first beat of the measure and hold them for whole notes or half notes according to the harmonic rhythm of the tune, at a quarter note = 60 3.)now try simple improvisations in the right hand over the left hand boogie line at quarter note = 60 Try simple chord tone improvisations at first. 4.) play step #3 for one chorus with metronome on at quarter note = 60 then stop evaluate your performance. Then do another chorus the same way. stop evaluate. then do another... Continue this procedure for 1/2 hour. 5.) continue this procedure daily for one week. AT the end of the week you should have accomplished your goal of playing boogie without collapsing at quarter note = 60 .... now It will be easy to get it faster. In the next week do the same procedure at quarter note = 80 The next week at quarter note = 100 Keep going until you are playing boogie happily at the tempos of your choice. | |
| Kabar -- 07/01/2004, 10:43:14 -- #5291 | |
| wow, thanks a lot in that case I have to work on my patience first :) | |
| Mike -- 07/01/2004, 12:51:50 -- #5299 | |
| that is the key... keep the reward in mind and that will help. | |
| Rick -- 07/01/2004, 14:37:18 -- #5300 | |
| I think this is a common problem? A lot of piano players, especially jazz ones complain about their left hand, me in particular. I guess it's the way that the right hand "typically" gets the most to do, and a pure jazz player, who mostly comps chords in his left isnt going to build up a great technique just doing that. I think it was Scot who suggested playing Parker heads with both hands... ;-) That would be neat to pull off...but technique is not everything! | |
| Bonzo -- 07/02/2004, 05:11:47 -- #5311 | |
| I got some problems with my left hand too (maybe not and is my problem more structural(?), I don't know exactly). I experience (some) difficulties when playing solopiano. I have been working on creating my own progressions and made some satisfying results (due to the link smg posted, thanx!!) (at least for now a lot have to be done). But I just can't play song on my own. It sounds empty, not complete, like there is missing something (and sometimes there is missing a lot!!). I don't want to play a theme with my left hand, like boogie or something. Just bass and chords (or do you guys all play chords with your right hand?) and what it takes to get a nice (full) sound. Playing along with a tune isn't that much a trouble (comping that is I guess? I'm not a native Englishspeaker as you have probably already noticed)). Do you guys know some good solopiano recordings to start with? Some info on techniques that are dealing with this problem are also welcome off course! (I hope someone understands what I have wrote here:-) | |
| Mike -- 07/02/2004, 06:26:41 -- #5313 | |
| There will be many different schools of thought and approaches to your answer your question. I teach that it is to your best result to begin by being able to play every composition solidly with your best choice of chord voicing in the left hand and the melody in the right hand. Be able to play the melody seperatly ... Be able to play the chord progression seperatly. Know both inside out. If a composition is solid it will sound good like this. (It is often psychological that we think it sounds empty... We all go thru stages where we wonder why we do not sound like Art Tatum before we learn it because we are not Art Tatum.... I for example am Mike, you are Bonzo, we play like us. This does not mean it is empty.) Then and only then explore arranging the tune. By arranging I mean maybe playing a walking bass line instead of chords in the left hand, or maybe harmonizing the melody in the right hand. If you do searches of this and the old forum you will find we have all submitted extensive lists of solo piano recordings that we think are great. | |
| Kabar -- 07/02/2004, 06:55:24 -- #5314 | |
| hmmm... about the "empty" feeling, I will give an example from my own experience: I've once heard a great composition of F.CHOPIN (hope you know him :)) and I wanted to learn it; I bought a tab and started learning; After a month or two, when I was able to play it quite well, it was no longer so great :/ And it's like this all the time; some pieces are great for me as long as as can't play them, but then... Maybe I have a problem with appreciating my own playing, I can't see my own value :/ | |
| Barry -- 07/02/2004, 08:18:08 -- #5318 | |
| Being able to appreciate the value in what you do, as well as highlighting weaknesses - it's an important part in learning to play. You need to be able to know when something you have done has been good and acknowledge that. This helps you to develop your 'chops' - what I like to define as a combination of technical ability and a musical awareness of what will work in certain situations - that will form a huge part of your individual playing style. I agree with Mike that a feeling of emptiness in solo playing is often psychological - it is important to realise that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a solo pianist to provide a Ray Brown walking bassline whilst 'comping like Herbie Hancock and playing Keith Jarrett RH lines. Even great solo players like Fats Waller, Art Tatum and Dave McKenna don't do that. They find their own ways to make the arrangement full sounding. Realise that the alleged 'emptiness' of solo piano can be part of it's charm. The best advice I could give to anyone is to record your playing - especially if you are playing solo. Something that sounds empty to you whilst you are playing it may not sound like at all when you hear it without the pressure of executing it. Hope this helpsBarry | |
| Kabar -- 07/02/2004, 08:30:58 -- #5319 | |
| recording your own playing is a great idea, it sounds totally different when you don't concentrate on playing, just on listening, even the mistakes aren't so tacky :) thanks to Barry | |
| Mike -- 07/02/2004, 08:52:18 -- #5322 | |
| Reading what you are saying makes me think of a book by Kenny Werner called "Effortless Mastery". I reccomend this book for you. It addresses in great detail why we often think we do not have what the masters have... why we do not think we are as good as the masters, and why it is often all in our minds. Some of his solutions are as simple as meditating on the words " I am great". Of course it is not this simple and Kenny Werner is a great pianist and that is not what he is really saying. However one of the final touches for any developing piano player is that you have to believe in yourself... you have to be confident in your own sound... Ultimately if you do not believe you sound good it is unlikely that you will sound good. Not knowing you and what you have been through it is hard to say what may have created your problem. Another solution is a good teacher. You need a teacher who's opinion you respect very much. So when this teacher says you sound good you will believe, then you will start thinking you sound good too. This leads to a subject that I am mostly despised for in this forum but in light of your problem it seems to be neccesary to address. Be very cautious of Critics. It is best to only heed the critics of Paid professionals whom you respect and know have impeccable credentials... others ussually have alterior motives in critqueing your work. It sounds to me like most likely you are not always accurately critiqueing your own work and you need a paid proffesional to help you learn to do that better. | |
| Mike -- 07/02/2004, 08:53:29 -- #5323 | |
| Barrys idea is good. recording yourself may help your self critiques become more accurate. | |
| Kabar -- 07/02/2004, 10:35:42 -- #5325 | |
| Mike, my previous teacher (thought me for 7 years) always said that I'm very good and she rarely told me to train more; I was practising 30 minutes every day which is definitely not enough, but she kept on telling me that I'm good; I've just resigned of taking lessons, because during the last 2 years I have almost stoped developing my skills; now I'm trying to learn Jazz by myself, but maybe I'll have to find a good teacher Anyway, I'll have to change the way I think of my own playing Maybe I'll buy the book that you've recommended me, Mike :) | |
| Mike -- 07/02/2004, 11:02:24 -- #5327 | |
| Maybe you need a Jazz teacher. It is a common mistake by classical players to think they can pick up jazz on there own. They almost invariably get frustrated and quit. Jazz has very unique demands from european classical music and they are very difficult to pick up on your own. | |
| Mike -- 07/02/2004, 11:07:10 -- #5328 | |
| Historically there is a myth of jazz players learning on there own to support this. It is a myth because most of the famous Jazz players who supposedly learned on there own studied heavily with other pianists, it just was not in a formal lesson enviornment. They would go over someonses house, maybe drink or do drugs, and study together all night long. A week or so later maybe do it again... It all acomplished the same thing as lessons. Someone like Duke Ellington whom it is said did not study Jazz actually studied Jazz with all the Top pianists of his day. | |
| Bonzo -- 07/02/2004, 13:05:15 -- #5331 | |
| lot of replies, thanx!! But your posts make me feel some sort of wimp with no confidence in his playing at all. My girl is a psychologist, so I take a few sessions with her:-). So far the psychological part. Taking a jazzpianoteacher is more like a dream for me as I can not afford one (poor student). The problem is more like this: I can play a walking bassline and play some melody over it. That's all going fine, but I miss something like chords. It is like I have one hand short. When I play a melody near the central c (is also called like this in english?) I can easily play some chords in the meantime with my right hand, because it is there allready. But when playing a melody much higher I can't go back that quick to play a chord. How do you guys handle this? When I play chords with my left hand en melody with my right hand. miss a bassline. I hope the only option isn't left->bass, right->chords and sing or whistle the melody. | |
| Bonzo -- 07/02/2004, 13:10:27 -- #5332 | |
| Ok, I found some solopiano threads out there. beginning of the month so we got still some money left to buy a new cd!! Hope your taste is the same as mine!! Can't wait.. | |
| Kabar -- 07/02/2004, 14:31:24 -- #5337 | |
| my cousin told me about his friend: he (friend) has never learned to play the piano, he doesn't know the music theory, and one day he came to my cousin and said: "I want to play boogie ". And (according to what my cousin says) he started to play a good boogie :/ My cousin says that after all the years of my training (7 years) I should easily play a great music (blues and boogie) But I still have the classic rules on my mind and thats a problem while playing boogie....I thought it would be easier :( | |
| albetan -- 07/02/2004, 15:51:07 -- #5342 | |
| Hi Bonzo: Try to play melody, chords and bass in an easy way so: Left performs two voices: bass and seventh or third. Right performs two voices: Melody and third or seventh. So you are playing melody up, bass down, and two harmonic voices in the middle, in a very pianistic style. Please download a "file" from Albetan's Area: "Melodic voicings 1". | |
| Mike -- 07/02/2004, 17:51:24 -- #5345 | |
| Kabar does your Cousin play? There is something he is missing. I personally know two great Concert Classical pianists. They give great public Classical concerts in the Boston area that I attend whenever I can. They both tried to tackle Jazz and Boogie on there own. They both failed. | |
| Bonzo -- 07/03/2004, 00:48:38 -- #5348 | |
| Albetan: thanks! Never split the chords and played them with both hands (at least not deliberate). analogue to your voicings: Is it common to play a walking bass instead of just a single note bass? | |
| Kabar -- 07/03/2004, 05:54:18 -- #5352 | |
| Mike, my cousin doesn't play the piano, but he told me I should play Boogie easily; I told him it's not so easy as he thinks; But now he's very helpful, he gave me some CD's with mp3 jazz music and he's trying to contact me with a good teacher :) | |
| albetan -- 07/03/2004, 07:48:55 -- #5353 | |
| Hi Bonzo: In Melodic Voicings 1, i suggest how to play in a harmonic style with 4 voices, a very pianistic perfomance of a melody with chords. You are asking for walking bass... then you must play melody with right with some chord notes, as in blocks (Melodic voicings 2). Or use your third hand, as suggested by Scot, right playing melody, left playing bass, and with the rest of fingers you add chord notes in rhythmic figures or as a harmonic background. | |
| Dr. Whack -- 07/04/2004, 22:12:24 -- #5397 | |
| just do it :) | |
| Bonzo -- 07/05/2004, 08:04:39 -- #5409 | |
| albetan: thanks again! artist formerly known as p: your right, piece of cake! | |
| docz -- 07/05/2004, 08:28:16 -- #5410 | |
| just a question, what did you mean "playing parker heads with both hands" ? could anyone please elaborate? Doc-Z | |
| Barry -- 07/05/2004, 09:07:41 -- #5412 | |
| He meant playing the melody of Charlie Parker tunes in unison - both hands an octave or two apart. | |
| docz -- 07/05/2004, 12:04:32 -- #5418 | |
| Oh... ok :) | |
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