| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Am I getting it? | |
| docz -- 07/05/2004, 15:23:35 -- #5422 | |
| I just recorded a midi file of me playing.. it's basically just some changes I came up with while practising. It's not a song, at least I don't know of a song that uses theese changes. I just wanted to know what you guys think. This jazz thing is still quite new to me. I'm playing (I think) C13 - Fmaj9 - Fm7 - Cmaj9 Em11 - A13 - Dm11 - G11 - Cmaj9 - A7b9 Dm11 - Db9#5 - Cmaj9 |:| Fmaj9 - Fm7 - Cmaj9 |:| A7b9 - Dm11 - G13 - Cmaj9 and the first passage again... Does it sound jazzy? What could make it better? any thoughts? suggestions? etc.? Doc-Z | |
| 7 -- 07/05/2004, 21:45:23 -- #5426 | |
| Left Hand: An authentic jazz bass line would improve it. Check out the "Walking Bass" section here for ideas. Right Hand: It needs a melody line or solo line or both. As it stands it's just a comp. Good luck! | |
| docz -- 07/06/2004, 01:16:31 -- #5428 | |
| How can you manage to play bass line, comp and solo all at the same time? Seems to me a job for three hands, not two :) Any exercises on this? Doc-Z | |
| Bonzo -- 07/06/2004, 06:02:06 -- #5431 | |
| I have got the same problem too, look for the thread of kabar "left hand problems" or something like that (recent thread). Gives some good info... | |
| 7 -- 07/06/2004, 09:07:03 -- #5439 | |
| If you're playing solo (no bass player), it's important to have a good bass line. The right bass line will not only express the roots, it will also express the chord qualities. During singing or underneath other musicians' solos you'll be comping the right hand like you are now. When it comes time for your solo, either maintain the bass line while doing your solo line (can be tricky!) or comp chords rhythmically in the left hand (easier but sometimes less powerful) while soloing in the right hand. | |
| marksdg -- 07/06/2004, 09:39:29 -- #5440 | |
| My thoughts on filling out your playing when playing solo: A lot of really good piano players end up sounding awful (in my opinion) when they try to play solo. They stick way too much embellishment in their playing, and don't get a good grove with a steady rhythm. I you are playing solo, I think that playing stride works pretty well across a surprisingly wide range of styles, especially if you break it up with a little bit of variation. So, in case you aren't familiar, stride has a low single note in the left hand on 1 & 3, and a higher chord on 2 & 4. You can vary it a bit by sometimes walking with single notes in the left hand, sometimes playing a low note on 1 and 2 "comping" chords at other times during the measure, and adding small 2 to 4 note embellishments. It sounds like your right hand is being tied to playing the notes from chords, instead of being free to solo. Cover a bit more of the chords with your left hand, and let your right hand roam a bit more. | |
| marksdg -- 07/06/2004, 09:55:49 -- #5441 | |
| Some more thoughts: I just went over to the "left hand problems" thread and I wanted to comment more: Some people suggest playing 2 or 3 note chords with the left hand, but this can cause problems: I like low notes in the left hand, especially when playing solo. One thing I really liked about your recording is that you played very low notes in the left hand. If you try to play a 2 or 3 note chord when you are that low, it really sounds muddy. If you don't like thr stride sound, try really working on a good walking base line, with a few more jumps in it than a base player would regularly do. Some thoughts on making a fuller sound: Add 2 note chords into your improvisations in the right hand. Add some sustain pedal (this must be done carefully, but I recently tried adding sustain to passages and found it helped make a fuller sound). Sometimes playing something a bit faster produces a fuller sound. Sometimes it is just the quality of piano you are playing. Base notes sound enormously different on a grand than on a cheap upright. | |
| docz -- 07/06/2004, 15:42:06 -- #5457 | |
| Thanks for all the comments guys, I will practise further. A couple quick questions: 1: Should the bass line consist of single notes withinn the chord? or with two or three notes in harmony with passing tones? 2: What is stride? not familiar with this term. Doc-Z | |
| marksdg -- 07/06/2004, 16:01:37 -- #5460 | |
| 1) The base line should consist of single notes, but not necessarily chord notes. Do 1 note on each beat, starting each measure with the chord root. The other three notes can be chord notes, or other notes in the relevant scale. 2) Look under Rooms: Jazz Lesson Rooms: Softly... for an example of stride on Softly, as in a Morning Sunrise. I like Scot's second example of the left hand the best, where there are single notes on beats 1 and 3. | |
| docz -- 07/06/2004, 16:28:03 -- #5461 | |
| Ok so stride is that "ooohmpa ooohmpa" thingy, now I get it. Man I listend to that file that Scott played, man I would love to play stuff like that... man a lot of left hand practise still to come. Any excersise that anyone can recommend for developing this "stride" style of playing? Doc-Z | |
| mooondancer -- 07/06/2004, 20:44:16 -- #5465 | |
| Stride doesn't have to be a hokey "ooohmpa ooohmpa". I always play a form of stride behind myself when I play, but not strict by-the-book stride. Basically I do three things with my left hand: 1. Roots and fifths 2. Bud Powell voicings (1-7 or 1-3) 3. Full left hand chords (3-7 shapes, whatever) I consider the roots and fifths in my left hand the foundation. The other stuff just goes in there when it can add to my solo line. Of course sometimes I will only play chords with my left hand, or just Bud Powells, but usually I mix up the three. Also when you start to solo, keep your left and right hands seperate mentally. Until recently, I used to hit the same accents with both hands as I played. When I stopped doing this, it opened everything up and let me play much more freely. Think of it as the right hand playing hip accented rhythms, etc., and the left hand just doing a light dance underneath you. Do any other players here use a form of "stride" similar to mine? I'd like to know how you modify the stride idea and what you use. Alex | |
| mooondancer -- 07/06/2004, 20:50:22 -- #5466 | |
| If you're looking for exercises to do, try setting up a simple rhythm with roots and fifths in the left hand, like: 1, and of 2, 4, 1, and of 2, 4 ... or even a simpler one like 1, 3, 1, 3. Don't feel bound to this rhythm, but get used to playing a solo line in your right hand with your left hand doing roots and fifths. Then add a few chords with the left hand when the time is right. It will help you to remember that the left hand can leave much more rhythmic space than the right and still be effective. Don't feel like you have to catch every right hand accent in your left hand comping. Just stick a few well-placed hits here and there, especially to define the harmony. Good luck | |
| docz -- 07/07/2004, 01:08:50 -- #5472 | |
| Thank you for your replies, I will look into this. Doc-Z | |
| marksdg -- 07/07/2004, 06:30:55 -- #5473 | |
| Moondancer: When you say roots and fifths, are you meaning playing single notes on beats 1 and 3? Perhaps the definition of stride is playing low single notes and higher chords, but not necessarily always on 1&3 and 2&4? Maybe even the choice of single notes is not necessary (2 note chords can work, if they are not too low). | |
| smg -- 07/07/2004, 07:00:21 -- #5475 | |
| marksdg-on a related subject-how you make out re-that post about using thirds melodically..........??? | |
| Jazz+ -- 07/07/2004, 23:35:42 -- #5487 | |
| Yes, play single notes: the Root on beat 1 and the 5th (or a chromatic approach note to whatever new root you are approaching) on beat 3. That imitates a "two beat" feel that bass players play. It's a lot more relaxed way of playing bass than walking bass on all four beats. It's similar to samba bass, half notes on beat 1 and beat 3. | |
| marksdg -- 07/08/2004, 06:10:37 -- #5495 | |
| On some pieces I have found it works to switch between walking base and stride on different choruses, using stride when building up volume. I particularly like doing this on "Minnie the Moocher" (yes, this works quite well on solo piano, and always gets a strong response from the audience). I start improvising with a walking base, including many 2 to 4 note runs between beats, and since there are only two chords the base line is free to do interesting stuff without having to worry so much about defining the chords. I switch to stride for a chorus or two before going back into the melody. | |
| mooondancer -- 07/09/2004, 13:28:21 -- #5523 | |
| marksdg -- Sometimes I play a definite bass line like root on 1 and 5th on 3, or tumbao, but what I meant in my previous post was just freely playing the root or 5th in the lower register instead of comping chords. This gives a nice feeling of space because there are no chords cluttering the midrange. Also you can get very rhythmic. This only works when you don't have a bass player! | |
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