LearnJazzPiano.com archives: A question for the big guns
Ziggy -- 02/03/2004, 18:46:25 -- #570
Most of you guys seem to be a lot more experienced than me. I'm sure you've got a lot of insight that I lack. SO, my question is:

What are the five most lacking aspects in younger players?

Zig

Whacky -- 02/03/2004, 18:54:01 -- #571
experience
maturity
repertoire
transposing skills
stylistic adaptability

those 5 come to mind...

Rick -- 02/04/2004, 06:07:44 -- #577
time
flow of ideas
motific development
knowledge of the jazz tradition
ability to solo over difficult changes

Ziggy -- 02/04/2004, 08:07:48 -- #582
Rick, what do you mean by motific development? I guess I'm just unfamiliar with that.

Barry -- 02/04/2004, 10:49:12 -- #594
It depends if you mean young players in terms of age or people who are learning.  If you mean emerging players then my answer is:

Rhythm
Rhythm
Rhythm
Rhythm
Rhythm

And I'm only half joking here!

Scot -- 02/04/2004, 10:58:24 -- #596
TIME!  Time is the biggest indicator for lack of experience.

Rick -- 02/04/2004, 11:11:09 -- #601
motific development

To cut it short, its the opposite of "waffling", just playing random lines that dont really go there. A motif is like a short (or long) phrase that gets repeated. So motif development is taking that short idea and then changing it, either by augmentation, diminuision (is that a word?), the changing of notes, feel, everything. It creates something that the listener can catch onto and maybe predict whats going to come. Most people would argue that predictability is bad, and of course too much of it is, but without any, i dont think a jazz solo would be as interesting if you had no idea what was going to come up. It might sound odd, but if you think about it, and listen to some good solos, you'll hear it all over the place....i hope...

Rick

Rick -- 02/04/2004, 11:14:02 -- #602
what.....that made no sense

The first line should read "waffling- just playing random lines that dont really go anywhere"

and maybe i should have written "i dont think a jazz solo would be as interesting if you had absolutely no idea what to predict"

obviously predictable stuff can be bad...but it is usefull sometimes!

Someone please back me up lol :-)

Scot -- 02/04/2004, 13:24:33 -- #614
Well, playing "deliberate", ie, not waffling, is also very important.

But there's a reason that a jazz classic is called, "It Don't Mean A Thing, If It Ain't Got That Swing."

7 -- 02/05/2004, 12:03:11 -- #678

Brash / Overconfident attitudes

More likely to believe that "if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit"

Rick -- 02/06/2004, 04:00:25 -- #691
that sums up about 95% of young saxophone players I know...

Ziggy -- 02/06/2004, 08:49:11 -- #700
I guess that brings up the flip side of the coin...
The aspects of young players that are annoying or a turn off.

I'm always annoyed at players who sit in and blow loud and long without any regard for the fact that they're making a really bad impression.

jmjelder -- 02/06/2004, 20:36:56 -- #717
7,

"if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit"

Love that quote, it applies to so many fields, from art to zen with full stops at education and politics.

Its a quote I hope to remember and pass on, thanks.

Joe

Rick -- 02/07/2004, 03:07:35 -- #719
one more,

an unwillingness to play ballads....

how ironic

Dr. Whack -- 02/03/2004, 18:54:01 -- #571
experience
maturity
repertoire
transposing skills
stylistic adaptability

those 5 come to mind...

Rick -- 02/04/2004, 06:07:44 -- #577
time
flow of ideas
motific development
knowledge of the jazz tradition
ability to solo over difficult changes

Ziggy -- 02/04/2004, 08:07:48 -- #582
Rick, what do you mean by motific development? I guess I'm just unfamiliar with that.

Barry -- 02/04/2004, 10:49:12 -- #594
It depends if you mean young players in terms of age or people who are learning.  If you mean emerging players then my answer is:

Rhythm
Rhythm
Rhythm
Rhythm
Rhythm

And I'm only half joking here!

Scot -- 02/04/2004, 10:58:24 -- #596
TIME!  Time is the biggest indicator for lack of experience.

Rick -- 02/04/2004, 11:11:09 -- #601
motific development

To cut it short, its the opposite of "waffling", just playing random lines that dont really go there. A motif is like a short (or long) phrase that gets repeated. So motif development is taking that short idea and then changing it, either by augmentation, diminuision (is that a word?), the changing of notes, feel, everything. It creates something that the listener can catch onto and maybe predict whats going to come. Most people would argue that predictability is bad, and of course too much of it is, but without any, i dont think a jazz solo would be as interesting if you had no idea what was going to come up. It might sound odd, but if you think about it, and listen to some good solos, you'll hear it all over the place....i hope...

Rick

Rick -- 02/04/2004, 11:14:02 -- #602
what.....that made no sense

The first line should read "waffling- just playing random lines that dont really go anywhere"

and maybe i should have written "i dont think a jazz solo would be as interesting if you had absolutely no idea what to predict"

obviously predictable stuff can be bad...but it is usefull sometimes!

Someone please back me up lol :-)

Scot -- 02/04/2004, 13:24:33 -- #614
Well, playing "deliberate", ie, not waffling, is also very important.

But there's a reason that a jazz classic is called, "It Don't Mean A Thing, If It Ain't Got That Swing."

7 -- 02/05/2004, 12:03:11 -- #678

Brash / Overconfident attitudes

More likely to believe that "if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit"

Rick -- 02/06/2004, 04:00:25 -- #691
that sums up about 95% of young saxophone players I know...

Ziggy -- 02/06/2004, 08:49:11 -- #700
I guess that brings up the flip side of the coin...
The aspects of young players that are annoying or a turn off.

I'm always annoyed at players who sit in and blow loud and long without any regard for the fact that they're making a really bad impression.

jmjelder -- 02/06/2004, 20:36:56 -- #717
7,

"if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit"

Love that quote, it applies to so many fields, from art to zen with full stops at education and politics.

Its a quote I hope to remember and pass on, thanks.

Joe

Rick -- 02/07/2004, 03:07:35 -- #719
one more,

an unwillingness to play ballads....

how ironic

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