LearnJazzPiano.com archives: A "bigger" sound
andy -- 09/10/2004, 10:49:42 -- #7076
I'm not good at this. I don't post things because I just like to observe. I guess I'll go for it...

I'm working on playing tunes with a "bigger" sound (like Mccoy Tyner and Herbie Hancock, with the root on the bottom and spread out chords), but I just can't make it sound right: I mean, it ends up sounding with too open. Any thoughts?

Thank you,
Andy

mooondancer -- 09/11/2004, 10:27:09 -- #7105
There are many, many different ways to voice chords.  My guess (tell me if I'm right) is that you're not using enough extensions in your chords.  Maybe you're sticking to 1, 3, 5, 7, and that's why the chords sound empty, conventional, colorless, compared to the possibilities Herbie Hancock uses.  Here are a few different ideas; be sure to move them around the keyboard becuase they sound better in some registers than others.


for dominant chords

LH root   RH 3-13-b7-9 or b7-3-9-13 (that's ascending order).  And other permutations of this "thirteenth" chord.

LH b7-3-13 RH 9-5-1   This is what I call a "salsa chord"

LH 1-b7  RH 3-13-9-#11   This is one of the many dominant #11 chords you can do (Another is maybe RH b7-3-#11-13, etc).  It is a VERY rich chord; to thin it out a bit, either omit some notes or double them (ex: instead of 13 in RH, hit b7 so it doubles LH)  Also note the 1-b7 in the LH.  This is what I call a "Bud Powell chord" and I play it as a good base in the LH when I'm trying other chords, or even soloing.


for minor chords

LH root  RH b3-11-b7-9 or b7-9-b3-5  good minor sounds.

LH 9-5-1 RH 11-6  alternated with  LH 1-4-b7 RH b3-5  These are "So What voicings" for minor chords; if you've ever listened to this tune by Miles you'll hear what I mean.

LH 1-4-b7 RH 9-5-1  This is actually a sus chord, and as there is no third it can be dominant OR minor.  Add a b3 in the RH for a richer minor.  Very thick rich chord around middle C register.

LH root  RH 11-b5-7-(9)  This is what I use for minor b5 chords.


You can always experiment and find many new voicings by manipulating a few ideas.  Try taking each note of the scale and building a major, minor, or dominant chord underneath ; you'll find a lot of possibilities that way

If you reply to this with questions or whatever, I'll put up some major chords too.

Scot -- 09/11/2004, 11:08:22 -- #7106
I thought I posted a response to this!  Must not have saved it.

So, a very easy way to get a bigger sound is to play octave melody in the right  hand and hit chords in the left hand for each melody note.

An easy example of this is C Jam Blues.

In the right hand, play middle G and the upper G (octave).

In the left  hand, play: E A Bb D (C7 type of chord)

Play them together in the rhythm of C Jam Blues and you'll have a bigger sound- more of a big band sound than a McCoy sound, but the idea is the same. McCoy would use more 4th based chords, but he does a lot of chording on the same rhythm as the melody notes.  Give it a shot!

7 -- 09/11/2004, 13:55:04 -- #7110
BB King can play ONE note and make it sound HUGE.

Count Basie could play two or three little notes and bring down the house.

"It's not what you play it's HOW you play it"

albetan -- 09/11/2004, 17:42:20 -- #7113
See files "Melodic voicings" in search engine (upwards)

andy -- 09/12/2004, 11:47:32 -- #7124
I think I understand what you guys are advising, but my problem recently has been that whenever I sit down to sight-read a new tune I play the same fourthy voicings, the same so-what voicings, or the same LH voicings every time.

So, I've been trying to slow down and make sure I've got a seventh and third in every chord, and then putting the root or extensions around them. I just plop down a note, add another note, add another note.... THEN BAM, I'VE GOT A CHORD.

I've seen some cool voicings in Mark Levine's Jazz Piano book, and I guess I'm wanting to expand on those...?

(I guess that's not really a question)

Scot -- 09/13/2004, 11:11:22 -- #7150
Just sounds like you need to spend more time practicing new voicings in your tunes.  What you do is this- take a tune you know how to play well. Go through it slowly and work out a new way to play every chord in the tune. Do it over and over again and try to play the same new chords each time.  

Really, new chords and such are all a result of practice, just like everything else. THe jazz Piano book is a good way to get more ideas about new voicings. I've been doing that myself lately with great results.

andy -- 09/13/2004, 11:43:25 -- #7152
I guess that's what I need to hear...Basically, keep pluggin' right? Yeah, I can do that.

andy -- 09/13/2004, 11:59:30 -- #7153
Also, I guess this earlier post is helpful to me and anyone else working on finding new chords...



Scot w p -- 02/08/2004, 15:42:27 -- #743

One of the hardest things is transcribing individual notes in a chord.  When I have to do that, I use a form of meditation- really!

I drift into an extremely relaxed state of being and play the chord over and over. In the past I've even made  a loop of just that one chord.

Then I listen for each note. I don't try to work them out at all, just listen for them. Once I can pick out each note in the chord, then the rest is easy- write them down.

The trick is to focus on different notes. Allow the other notes to dissolve into noise nad just hear the one note you are looking for. It's hard, but it's a form of ear strength. These days I can pretty much pick out notes in a chord without trying. For a few years there is was a  living nightmare trying to get those notes.

Moral of the story is the more you try the better you'll get.

auralgiant -- 10/08/2004, 21:47:26 -- #7886
.-.

auralgiant -- 10/08/2004, 21:48:51 -- #7887
bump.-.

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