| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Voice leading for the long fingered! | |
| Brotherdavies -- 09/20/2004, 02:43:56 -- #7274 | |
| Hi Following on from ClassicCase's recent post on Jazzy chord voicings, here is my problem! If I play a leadsheet through for the first time I use chords like this IN THE LEFT HAND ONLY: C7: C+Bb+E Cmaj7: C+B+E Cm7: C+Bb+Eb I play melody in my right hand and any other extensions and alterations. Always sounds smooth and Jazzy to me! However, I understand that this is poor technique, I need to voice lead or I will sound like the amateur I am! However, I find if I voice lead I end up moving into basic voicings built up of 3rds. I am playing many standards and so voicing ii-V-I is my main concern, how can I keep a smooth left hand when moving through a ii-V-I using my nice LH voicings as much as posible?You will see the dominant 7 voicing includes a Tri-tone interval Bb+E, I like to use this a much as possible. Cheers, Bro' Davies PS there seems to be a lot of mileage to be got from voicing basic arrangements before you even contemplate chord substitution?? | |
| Dr. Whack -- 09/20/2004, 07:40:25 -- #7277 | |
| That's a very good way to do it. The only problem would be if you do that same thing for all your chords. That constant parallel motion can get old in a a hurry, so you'll need to experiment with some other voicings. For example you might do something like this for a LH ii-V-I in C: DFC GFB CEB or DCF GF CGE This covers the basic colors and frees your right hand to add some extensions, while providing a nice alternative to repetitive parallel motion | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/20/2004, 08:01:29 -- #7279 | |
| What you are describing is sort of the way Hank Jones plays his left hand: Let's look at it in F (root, 7th, 10th) F7: F+Eb+A Cmaj7: F+E+A Cm7: F+Eb+Ab Now when he moves to the next chord, Bb7 for example he does get smooth voice leading with a more compact voicing (root, 3rd, 7th) Bb7: Bb+D+Ab He tends to alternate between (root, 7th, 10th) and (root, 3rd, 7th) positions. | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/20/2004, 08:02:12 -- #7280 | |
| CORRECTION: What you are describing is sort of the way Hank Jones plays his left hand: Let's look at it in F (root, 7th, 10th) F7: F+Eb+A Fmaj7: F+E+A Fm7: F+Eb+Ab Now when he moves to the next chord, Bb7 for example he does get smooth voice leading with a more compact voicing (root, 3rd, 7th) Bb7: Bb+D+Ab He tends to alternate between (root, 7th, 10th) and (root, 3rd, 7th) positions. | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/20/2004, 08:03:09 -- #7281 | |
| It's like the Bud Powell "claw" with the 10th thrown in on top. | |
| Brotherdavies -- 09/21/2004, 01:23:29 -- #7314 | |
| Thanks guys - this is fantastic! Another post is already forming in my mind! Bro' Davies, Bristol, England | |
| Brotherdavies -- 09/21/2004, 01:23:32 -- #7315 | |
| Thanks guys - this is fantastic! Another post is already forming in my mind! Bro' Davies, Bristol, England | |
| hepcatmonk -- 09/21/2004, 07:54:38 -- #7320 | |
| get Luke Gillespie's book ii-V-I voicings for contemporary pianists; i think that is the title. It's a brilliant collection of hundreds of great ii-V-Is in different styles; major, minor, quartal, quintal, polytonal, with inner voices counterpoint, etc etc. It's amazing, only 13 dollars (or so) and EVERY SINGLE example in the book follows voice leading. That's right. Every single one. It's published by aebersold | |
| Jazz+ -- 09/21/2004, 08:38:02 -- #7324 | |
| I agree, Luke Gillespie's book ii-V-I voicings for contemporary pianists, is the perhaps the best work in its field. It is more comprehensive on the topic of voivngs than the Levine books. | |
| sid -- 09/21/2004, 09:29:05 -- #7327 | |
| Is anyone familiar with the Frank Mantooth book? Some students tell me they have found it useful for the kind of issue being discussed in this thread. Incidentally I learned from his website that Mantooth died earlier this year. He was obviously widely respected and will be missed. sid | |
| docz -- 09/21/2004, 15:24:57 -- #7343 | |
| Aren't theese called "Decims" ? Atleast that is what my dad calls 'em. He plays a stride type thingy using theese types of chords. LH: On beat one: 1 - 7 - 9th or 10th, beat two: LH: 1 - 3 - 7 RH: Plays melody in octave with color tones in between. This type of playing is something I've practised the last year to accomplish, but man it's hard! :) My fingers aren't limber enough to do this. You find this type of left hand voicings in pop music to... The base comp on "Every breath you take" by sting is: 1 - 5 - 9 | 1 -5 - 10 | 1 - 5 - 1(octave over first 1) Allthough most "pop" pianists use octaves in their LH, like Elton and Billy Joel does, I do from time to time see this type of Left hand still. Doc-Z | |
| johnq -- 09/22/2004, 00:42:34 -- #7347 | |
| The Mantooth book is good but is mainly concerned with rootless two handed voicings using quartals and upper structure triads. He will be missed. Was lucky enough to meet him last year on his tour of the UK. | |
| 7 -- 09/22/2004, 09:23:04 -- #7353 | |
| decims = tenths = 10ths They can also be constructed from the 3rd, 5th and (in Jazz) the 7th degrees. Inside the 3 - 5 tenths you can conveniently insert the 7th AND root. Inside the 5 - 7 tenths you can insert the 9th. Inside the 7 - 9 tenths you can insert 5th. Many interesting leding voice motions can happen by moving the 10ths up or down chromatically or diatonically (depending on the context). | |
| docz -- 09/23/2004, 01:17:51 -- #7367 | |
| So play 3 and 5 and the 7 in the middle? Like this: Cmaj7 = E B G? Doc-z | |
| docz -- 09/23/2004, 01:18:14 -- #7368 | |
| Could you give an example of that chromatic and diatonic movement, that sounds intriging! :) Doc-Z | |
| 7 -- 09/23/2004, 11:37:18 -- #7382 | |
| Doc-Z, Question 1: "So play 3 and 5 and the 7 in the middle? Like this: Cmaj7 = E B G?" Yes. Question 2: "Could you give an example of that chromatic and diatonic movement" http://www.JeffreeBrent.com/Lessons/lh10ths.html "Left Hand Stride Piano Tenths" An article dealing with 10ths in the left hand and their use in Jazz. Complete with MIDI audio examples. | |
| Brotherdavies -- 09/24/2004, 01:43:34 -- #7398 | |
| Hi Some some very useful suggestions here! I can't wait to get my hands on the Luke Gillespie book, voicing 2-5-1 is exactly what I want to concentrate on at this time. Cheers everyone! Bro' | |
| docz -- 09/25/2004, 02:10:15 -- #7418 | |
| Hey, thanks 7 :) Doc-Z | |
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