Scot Ranney's LearnJazzPiano.com archive: transcriptions

LearnJazzPiano.com archives: transcriptions
jbl81 -- 10/07/2004, 21:36:07 -- #7857
I'm relatively new to jazz piano. I'm one of the many classical converts to jazz, and have been studying jazz for around two years now. When I first started my studies, I thought transcriptions were an invaluable thing. I thought that if I played them enough, I would somehow absorb the wisdom that went into playing them and would learn to improvise on my own. Well, after several months and inches of print-outs, that didn't happen and I quickly lost interest in them. A year and a half later now, I've got my ear to a point where I can transcribe on my own with relative ease (relative, meaning compared to not being able to at ALL not long ago). I now realize the benefits of actually doing the transcription yourself. I'm now wondering though, to those of you more advanced down the path, what value do you find in other people's transcriptions? Any? How do they help you? I'm at a point now where I don't need other people to transcribe for me, and while I can see the value of doing it myself, I wonder what, if anything, is to be gained from the mountains of free transcriptions available on the internet....
Scot -- 10/07/2004, 23:53:08 -- #7861
The act of transcribing (when it comes to melodic and rhythmic ideas) is what makes you better, not necessarily the transcription itself. With that said, I like to play through other people's transcriptions when it comes to solo piano tunes. The ones that have all the notes, not just the solo and chords. What I like is to find cool voicings and ways of putting chords together and steal the ideas for my own playing.
Mike -- 10/08/2004, 08:43:50 -- #7872
You might find the thread of 10/7 interesting on this subject. do a search transcriptions threads to find it.
mooondancer -- 10/08/2004, 09:29:03 -- #7873
Transcriptions won't help you learn to improvise unless you understand what improvisation is. Improvisation is not playing someone else's notes. It's coming up with your own ideas. Once you understand how to do that, transcriptions can be a tool to add techniques & tricks to your own playing. But realize that many players whom you are transcribing played their solos entirely from their own minds, not by stringing together other people's ideas. You have to learn to do the same thing. Then, the value of transcribing will make more sense to you.
Scot -- 10/08/2004, 10:50:08 -- #7875
I have to somewhat disagree with what Moondancer says. Until you know the language, you can't make sentences. This goes for improv as well as speaking. When you are starting out, it's important to analyze and learn what other people played. All the great jazz musicians did it- Charlie Parker learned as many Lester Young solos as possible, Monty Alexander learned note for note many of things that Nat King Cole played. The list goes on forever. When you are starting out, not only is it OK to use other people's ideas, it is necessary to use them because of the complexities in jazz. As time goes on you will start understanding why Herbie played something this way, and why Oscar played something that way. As this understanding of why people played certain notes certain ways becomes more clear, then you'll be able to really start creating your own original ideas, using the language of jazz that you've painstakenly learned by doing all that transcription and listening. Jumping right into improvisation without knowing how to structure things and what "words" you can use, you'll sound like someone who came out of an arts college and didn't take any time to learn the roots of your music. I'm thining of Cornish college of the arts in Seattle. From their playing, it sounds like the students there just jump into finding "their own voice" and totally neglect learning the roots. Look at theatre- most of the great improv artists out there have a huge repository of classical knowledge (Shaekspear and such). Artists are the same way- you go to art school and learn to copy the styles of all the masters. Then, at the end of your schooling, the artist starts finding their own voice, their own style. I'm not saying you can't jump into improv- but it's important to learn what has gone before so that when you play you have some sensibilities about the language of jazz so that you can communicate in the same language that everyone else is communicating in. Gotta know what's going on, before you can step outside of it.
mooondancer -- 10/08/2004, 16:25:28 -- #7884
"Until you know the language, you can't make sentences." In jazz, the "language" is a scale, or a set of chords, a chord progression -- the parameters you improvise within. These musical tools are public domain; anyone can use them. Of course you have to have familiarity with this language before you begin playing, if you want to sound like you know what you're doing. An actor must know his own speaking voice, his manner of stringing words together, the way he uses inflections to create emotion while he is having a conversation, BEFORE he can gain any knowledge from studying shakespeare, or the techniques of acting. How can master classes in acting mean anything to a person who isn't familiar with his own voice, body, expressions? You say, until you know the language, you can't make sentences. We agree on this statement, but disagree on what "language" is in jazz. I'd say the jazz language is the scales and chords, etc., -- the mechanics. Words are tools that don't have much meaning in themselves. One must learn this "language" first, and become comfortable "speaking" it, before understanding WHY someone else used certain words together, why something is creative, and why certain phrases have so much power. A foundation in transcriptions is not really a foundation -- shakespeare is not a foundation. The language we speak every day is the foundation. If someone tries to learn a great artists' technique without first exploring the way his own hands hold a brush, apply paint, and the way his own mind views a canvas, he will only become confused. Learning how to hold a brush, make strokes, compose simple structures is the first step. Then, other peoples' techniques broaden your ideas of what is possible. You say you have to know what's going on, before you can step out of it. I agree with this statement -- first you have to have a foundation in your own hands, your own mind, and knowing what improvisation IS. Then, other people's solos can teach you something.
Scot -- 10/09/2004, 00:45:45 -- #7889
You are missing the point. In order to create sentences, not only do you need the tools - words - but you need to know how the culture you live and interact with uses these words to say things that make sense. Same with jazz. You can't just play a bunch of scales and notes and pretend they make sense. You have to play them within the constraints of the language so that people can make out what you are playing. This is when you are starting out. Once you have a full understanding of it all and can play within the language, there's nothing stopping you from going all out to create your own voice. Take Monk for example. We all know his sound is unique. But we all don't know that he was a bopper before that. He learned the language of jazz and could play just like Bud Powell. Coltrane could play like Parker, then he upped his game and defined a whole new genre just about. Chick Corea was a bopper, and he eventually developed his own sound as well.Jazz language is not scales and chords and such. Those are the building blocks of the jazz language. Too many people think improvisation is playing whatever comes out. Improv is composition - on the spot composition. All the elements of a good composition should be there, and in the jazz language, the elements of a good composition can be seen in the solos of the greats. It's like reading. You don't sit there after you learn the alphabet and scribble on paper and turn it in thinking that it's a masterpiece of prose. You learn the alphabet, learn how to read, read lots of books in school to get an idea of how words are used, then in 1st grade you write your first few creative writing sentences. There are rules in jazz, rules in improv, and it's important to know what they are if one wants to be considered a legit player. Scales and chords are very important, but in order to use them correctly, you've gotta learn the rules, and one of the best ways is to transcribe what the greats play, study the transcriptions, and be able to emulate them. It's not even the notes and chords that are really important in the improv world, it's the timing and rhythm of the notes and chords. You can almost play any note and make it hip if you put it in the right place. Transcriptions are more valuable than gold when it comes to learning things like that.
Copyright © 2005 by Scot Ranney. All rights reserved.
Click Here for more information about performances and clinics. Click Here to sign up for Scot's music announcements.