| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Jazz & Smoking | |
| Jono -- 11/06/2004, 12:00:40 -- #8679 | |
| I was thinking how non-smoking jazz players, particularly horn players, are effected by passive smoking. If one is often playing in smoky environments and breathing in a lot at the same time then surely there are health risks. Here in the UK there are proposals to bann smoking in pubs, clubs, resturants etc. How would this effect musicians? Would it mean there would be less health risks (and laundry bills), or would it simply mean that there were less gigs due to a decline in folks going to these places, as the result of a bann. Thoughts...... | |
| sid -- 11/06/2004, 13:04:16 -- #8682 | |
| A lot of the musicians I know are smokers - strangely, the horn players are the worst. I don't smoke, never have, but a smokey atmosphere doesn't bother me. I suppose it's because I always expected the jazz life to be like Herman Leonard's famous shot of Dexter Gordon - wreathed in smoke and just the last word in cool. And then of course there's The smoker's movie - The Fabulous Baker Boys. The first time I saw it I almost lit up on the spot (and got on a flight to Seattle). On the other hand, the current vocalist really hates the smoke and this limits where we can play, and for how long. So I suppose the smoking ban will be a good thing if it happens, though where they'll find enough cops to enforce it is another question altogether. sid | |
| Peteboypete -- 11/06/2004, 13:07:27 -- #8683 | |
| I'll admit it, I started smoking just recently from hanging out with jazz musicians around Kansas City. It definately has to do with that Dexter Gordon photo, but also, most of my professors and friends do it. I've begun to quit, though, I only smoke on occasion now. | |
| Scot -- 11/06/2004, 14:05:46 -- #8684 | |
| I've found that non-smoking establishments that have access to smoking areas outdoors do not hurt at all. In fact, I find that there are MORE people going to the non-smoking places for the fact that they don't have to worry about the dangers of second hand smoke. I can't even stay for a full set in a place that is full of cigarette smoke- my eyes go completely crazy. Strangely enough, I smoke a cigarette almost every Tuesday. ok, I know it sounds weird, but the Tuesday night jam session makes me want a smoke. I was never a heavy smoker, though when I lived in Asia I probably smoked one or two cigarettes every day. Still not heavy, but for me, that's heavy. Now, in Asia or Europe, I can't say what would happen if jazz clubs became non-smoking. So many people smoke in Asia and I've heard it's the same in Europe, so maybe overseas non-smoking version smoking establishments might actually affect how well they do business-wise. | |
| Jono -- 11/06/2004, 16:33:49 -- #8694 | |
| Interesting point, Scot. I suppose it depends what country one is in. In the UK there is a massive anti-smoking campaign and it is often socially discouraged. The overall number of smokers in the UK is going down (though there has been an increase in young women who smoke). However when I've been on the continent (France, Spain & Greece anyway) it seems as though everyone smokes there. | |
| 7 -- 11/06/2004, 22:03:03 -- #8718 | |
| In California, they banned smoking in restaurants and bars a few years back. When the law was first passed, there was a lot of enforcement. Many bars have outdoor smoking areas now. But many bars simply ignore the law, and there is virtually no enforcement. Cops have better things to do. And the cops that do come into the "non-compliance" bars are the ones smoking the big stogies. That stupid law was passed by people who don't smoke and who don't go to bars. Bartenders and waitresses complained en masse that business went to hell because the customers were all out on the patio smoking instead being inside where they're supposed to be: drinking and spending money. ------- An Andrew Dice Clay bit from one of his movies: Scene: Outdoors at a garden party. Dice lights up a cigarette. Almost immediately a busybody woman comes up and says: "Sir, could you stop smoking?!" Dice: "Dunno, never tried" Woman: "Don't you know that second-hand smoke is twice as deadly as first-hand smoke?" Dice: "Guess I made the right choice then" | |
| Dr. Whack -- 11/07/2004, 17:59:33 -- #8736 | |
| Okay...y'all STOP SMOKING! I spent several months by my sister's side while she lived on a respirator...I watched my mother-in-law (who lives with us) go 'through living hell after having a an upper lung lobe removed....I've seen a diseased lung...andyuck...and I've personally had trouble breathing in the past...I wish you all could witness or experience...any or all of those things... The funny thing is, my sister actually smokes now and then...go figure... AS for second hand smoke...after seeing a diseased lung, I will avoid smoke at every opportunity...I don't care who's playing (and it won't be me) | |
| Rob Rua -- 11/08/2004, 05:03:57 -- #8745 | |
| Here in Ireland smoking was recently banned in all public buildings, including pubs/bars. Contrary to expectations it has generally been a success and I, for one, have not noticed any decline in either the quality of playing or numbers attending local gigs. More to the point I don't find myself wheezing and stinking of smoke for days afterwards. One major downside: with the absence of smoke we have discovered that Dublin pubs really stink (body odour, farts and carpets soaked with decades worth of Guinness). Just means you have to take care not to sit too close to the drummer! Rob PS: I'm a jazz piano neophyte myself but have gained a huge amount of knowledge from this site: keep up the good work! | |
| alhaynes -- 11/08/2004, 07:03:08 -- #8751 | |
| I lost my mother to lung cancer, so you know how I feel. Al | |
| Barry -- 11/08/2004, 07:58:30 -- #8754 | |
| I smoked for over ten years and only ever made one attempt to give up. I lasted three months and and it was utter torture - I was convinced that I would be a smoker until it killed me. Of course I was worried about the health risks and I kmew, as every smoker does, just how dangerous smoking is but I always took the view that 'I would rather die earlier but be happy than live to a miserable old age'. This year I stopped smoking in February after reading a book by Alan Carr called 'The Easy Way To Stop Smoking'. I read the book in a single day (stopping for cigarette breaks!) and when I finished the book I knew I wasn't going to smoke again. It was the easiest thing I have ever done and I don't miss it at all. I didn't feel deprived at any stage and I carried on going out and drinking and wasn't even tempted. Knowing how easy it is, I can't believe that I smoked for all those years. The central premise for the book is that it isn't hard to give up smoking and all you have to do to achieve that is change the way you think about smoking. It is very hard to smoke - any teenager will tell you that as they cough their guts up whilst trying to look tough in front of their friends - and whilst smokers think that they enjoy smoking, the reality is that they don't. If the smoker can realise this then he/she will be free not to smoke. If you doubt this, think of it this way: If you are a smoker, knowing what you know now, and you could go back in time to before you started smoking, would you still choose to start? I can't believe how easy it was to stop and I would urge any smoker out there to read this book. It has changed my life for the better and I know I will never have the desire for a cigarette again. Sorry if this sounds a bit evangelical but I was, and still am, amazed and overjoyed at being able to stop. Give it a go if you are thinking of quitting. | |
| Dr. Whack -- 11/08/2004, 12:23:05 -- #8763 | |
| Wow...thank you congratulations...I smoked for a couple of years myself, but began thinking of smoking as you described and I simply quit. Period. People tell me my experiences is rare, but know I can reccommend that book! Ya know it's not about how long you're going to live, but how comfortable you're going to live until you die. Gasping for air and having your lungs carved to peices is not very comfortable in my view. | |
| Dr. Whack -- 11/08/2004, 12:57:43 -- #8765 | |
| I wonder of there is a booked called "The Easy Way To Stop Typos" | |
| Barry_UK -- 11/09/2004, 11:13:48 -- #8787 | |
| As a smoker, I was interested to read somewhere that smokers are generally more chilled out than non-smokers. They're also less neurotic, tend to be more likeable and more tolerant - especially of those who are intolerant of smokers. I'd like to bet that, on the whole, they're also more adventurous and more creative since they're more willing to take risks. Anyway, I'm off for a cup of coffee and a cigarette... | |
| CynBad -- 11/09/2004, 18:10:31 -- #8798 | |
| I remember when I was a waitress, I always preferred waiting on the smoking section, because they were much better tippers. | |
| Peteboypete -- 11/09/2004, 19:18:56 -- #8800 | |
| I know that I've met a lot more people since I've started smoking. It seems that being forced outside bonds people. Plus, people are always coming up bumming and smoke or a light. Even though I have all but quit, I still go out with my smoker-friends just for the social aspect. | |
| Mike -- 11/10/2004, 02:21:51 -- #8811 | |
| I understand all the social benefits of smoking ciggartettes. That is why I started when I was twelve years old. But smoking screws with your blood vessels. Your brain for example is this amazingly complex device being fed by blood vessels. If anything goes wrong with any of these tiny blood vessels it is time for you to likely die or become a vegetable for life. I am a rare survivor of having one of these blood vessels screw up. I almost became a vegetable. After surgery I had to be taught how to walk again, how to take a shower, I lost seven hundred tunes I had in memory. This all pretty directly attributed to the smoking of ciggarettes all my life and the high blood pressure it caused and the undue strain on blood vessels. Are you willing to give your life for a nice social chat. Its not worth I tell you from experience, there are other ways to find social fullfillment. | |
| Barry_UK -- 11/10/2004, 10:23:07 -- #8819 | |
| Mike, Much as I sympathise with you and am genuinely glad to hear that you've recovered from your illness (I've always read your posts with interest - we share a certain cynicism) I think it's important to get all this in perspective. Smoking is just one of a countless number of taboos from which society tries, in it's ignorance, to protect us. I consider myself to be a responsible adult able to make rational, or on occasion, irrational, choices. I'm aware of the risks and choose to smoke. Personally, I enjoy smoking. Always have. l do not defend smoking, per se, and agree with having smoke free public places. But I defend my right to choose, knowing the risks, in the same way that I choose to drink, drive a car, fly through the air in a metal bomb, eat meat, associate with females (very great emotional hazard), parachute out of an plane (if I felt the need), etc all of which have a greater or lesser inherent risk. The list goes on and on. It's all a question of balance. I've had a good friend who died very young (not smoking related) and I know people who've smoked like chimneys, drunk like fish, done drugs, driven like maniacs, and generally raised hell well into a happy and contented old age. I'll continue to very much appreciate your thoughts on the matter of jazz piano, but, unfortunately, the 'this happened to me because of that' argument doesn't provide evidence for a damned thing. | |
| Mike -- 11/10/2004, 11:06:37 -- #8821 | |
| Actually it provides evidence of quite a lot. It provides first hand evidence from someone in the forum that smoking can kill you in a very nasty way. However I am a firm believer in what you say before your eroneous conclusion. I despise that governments try to take the right away from people to choose for themselves. If anyone wants to screw witheir bodies delicate inards and risk the consequences that should be their own choice in my opinion. I am against all the no smoking rules in bars even though I hate the smoke. Fact is I do not go into bars anymore unless I am working in them anyways. Fact is I am really quite radically against goverment interference in what people consume, I even abhore all the anti drinking laws. As far as I am concerned Fun is going to cost a few lives. My intention was simply to try to teach that the body has all these very fragile blood vessels in it. In many instances these blood vessels are carrying blood to the brain and are wrapped all around the area of the brain. Smoking directly effects the functioning of these blood vessels and in fact can make them pop jut like too much air can make a bicycle tire pop. That can make you dead just like a blown tire can make vehicle stop riding. I never said I believed in legislating the end of smoking. To the contrary I do not. I do believe in sharing my knowledge of what I know to be fact, that is why I partake in this forum. | |
| Barry_UK -- 11/10/2004, 12:11:45 -- #8822 | |
| Mike, I'm afraid you've misinterpreted my remarks. My intention was not to accuse you of anything, especially not that you believed in legislating the end of smoking. And you're entirely right about the body's 'delicate inards'. I was merely pointing out that what you consider to be a fact in your particular case, isn't in any way a universal truth in much the same way that being badly injured in a car accident carries no rational weight either for or against the use of motor vehicles. Just one of those things. There will always be a counter example of the guy who's been driving for many years without mishap. And neither example, in itself, can prove anything one way or the other about the risks of driving. However, I don't want to get into an off-topic argument about this. I appreciate your point of view and what you must have gone through to overcome your illness, and I've said my piece, so let's just agree to disagree. | |
| Mike -- 11/10/2004, 17:39:09 -- #8825 | |
| Well I am not at all sure what we are diagreeing about then. So I am not really sure I can agree to disagree. But I can agree to stop discussing it. | |
| Tazz -- 11/11/2004, 03:12:53 -- #8836 | |
| Strange, it's always been a dream of mine to play Jazz piano in a smoke filled bar. The smoke just adds to unique the atmosphere of a late night Jazz bar. I only recently took up Jazz piano, and with it, I took up smoking cigars. I'm thinking yellow teeth are a small price to pay for having the image of a jazz pianist. | |
| Scot -- 11/11/2004, 07:08:54 -- #8842 | |
| I'm not sure how many jazz pianists will say that yellow teeth made them a better player, though :) | |
| Dr. Whack -- 11/11/2004, 07:32:10 -- #8843 | |
| yeah, and I would imagine it's hard to play whilst your connected to a portable oxygen tank and tubes coming out of your nose...maybe that takes your mind of the yellow teeth? Hard to say though, I've not seen that aspect of it depicted in any movies:) (Jeff Bridges (Baker Boys) when he's in his seventies hackin away, gasping for air after a lifetime of smoking, drinking, multiple sex partners and no money) | |
| Mike -- 11/12/2004, 01:11:46 -- #8869 | |
| Chris Rock has a great routine about smoking. He says most drugs are illegal because there point of origin is countrys where the owner of the product is Black men. The product comes into the country and then is often dealt by black men and even often consumed by black men. That aint cool. Lock everybody up. Ciggarette smoking ... on the other hand ... It kills more people than any drug... It is more addictive than any drug but it is all owned and sold by White men... so... "Its all right cause its all White". | |
| Dr. Whack -- 11/12/2004, 07:06:29 -- #8879 | |
| lol - I love Chris Rock:) | |
| 7 -- 11/12/2004, 09:57:34 -- #8886 | |
| I have to agree that I too always find myself gasping for air while having multiple sex partners. Especially if I'm the one on the bottom. However having no money never seem to affect my respiration. I've been poor all my life and never had any trouble breathing because of it. | |
| jeffsal -- 11/17/2004, 17:57:48 -- #9034 | |
| May I just state the fact that a large percentage of famous jazz musicians smoked marijuana heavily. If you don't believe me than look it up yourselves. Louis Armstrong smoked every day. Parker, Miles, they all did. | |
| Peteboypete -- 11/17/2004, 22:11:19 -- #9040 | |
| Though Miles says in his autobiography that he only smoked pot a few times because he didn't like it. | |
| Mike -- 11/18/2004, 00:13:31 -- #9044 | |
| I smoked pot heavily up til my 44th birtday and I never became a famous Jazz musician. Ive often thought maybe its cause I never did heroin, but you know I have always been afraid of needles and in my day they didnt snort it really, or you never heard of that anyways, lucky for me or Id be a junky for sure. | |
| Mike -- 11/18/2004, 00:14:41 -- #9045 | |
| I tried lots of Coke too and I still never got the call that made me famous. Maybe you have to be really good??? | |
| Dr. Whack -- 11/18/2004, 07:33:26 -- #9053 | |
| lol :) | |
| 7 -- 11/18/2004, 10:34:15 -- #9063 | |
| Afraid of needles? No problem, try the ancient method of "chasing the dragon". It requires no special equipment and definitely gets the job done. If your dealer friends have lots and lots of money maybe you can convince THEM to produce your hit record. That's they way it works in the world of Rap & Hip-Hop. | |
| robijazz -- 08/09/2005, 15:41:20 -- #17441 | |
| hi | |
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