| LearnJazzPiano.com archives: Left Hand Voicings with Guitar and No Bass Player | |
| orson -- 11/09/2004, 19:31:59 -- #8802 | |
| Hello, I'm new to the group so if my post is not suitable for this group, please let me know... I've recently started playing "real" jazz, as opposed to reading off sheet music. I mostly play solo at home, or get together with a guitar player friend of mine. Neither of us has a clue what we're doing, and it is strictly for fun. Sometimes we have a bass player, sometimes we don't. We mostly play standards out of the "New Real Book". Most of my technical info comes from Mark Levine's excellent book "Jazz Piano". My question: My little combo of is kind of unusual jazz instrumentation, particularly when we lack a bass player. Does anyone have a good feel for what sort of chord voicings would work well? I like the sound of Bill Evans style rootless voicings, but when we lack a bass player, I feel like we need some roots! Sometimes I try to play sort of a stride style, hitting an octave and then a rootless voicing, but on some tunes that sounds inappropriate and a bit oompah. How can we get a cool sound, but also some low end? Can anyone recommend good recordings by a piano/guitar duo, or a piano/guitar/bass trio? | |
| Scot -- 11/09/2004, 19:45:02 -- #8806 | |
| Just play the root with your left hand when you need to, but don't worry about the stride thing. Use large chords in your right hand with melody on top and you can get a nice sound. if you're playing with your guitar player, have him/her play the melody and you can play bass and chords. There are a LOT of ways to enjoy various combo setups. That challenge is all part of the fun. Remember- bass notes aren't always necessary, but it is nice to hear them sometimes. On the other hand, chords are not always necessary either, but they are also nice to hear sometimes. You can just play bass notes and melody at times and it will sound great. Just keep having fun and experimenting with sounds that YOU think sound good,and keep jamming, rehearsing, etc, cause that is what it's all about. | |
| Jazz+ -- 11/09/2004, 22:33:20 -- #8808 | |
| I work professionaly as a duo with a jazz guitarist. It's my favorite grouping. I am influenced by the Pat Martino dou album with Rhodes player Gil Goldstein. Also the Bill Evand Jim Hall album. I almost always lay the root on the bottom in the guiatr/piano duo. I do a lot of half note bass line (root on beat 1, 5th on beat 3) and a lot of walking bass lines. I use all the voicing systems: 1+1, 2+1, 2+2, 1+3 and 1+4 (see Metaphors For The Musician by jazz pianist Randy Halberstadt, not Levine) | |
| marksdg -- 11/10/2004, 06:12:35 -- #8813 | |
| It seems to me that with a guitar player, doing a walking base with your left hand and melody with your right would be perfect, and leave almost all of the comping with the guitar. One note on stride: I find a slow stride on ballads (like 'Round Midnight) to work really well for solo playing, and it might work well in a piano/guitar duo. | |
| Jazz+ -- 11/10/2004, 07:59:49 -- #8815 | |
| The guitar plays lots of melodies and solos too. The keyboard player needs to comp chords in the right hand. You don't always need to walk the bass, 2 beat bass is half note rhythm in the left hand (root on beat 1, 5th on beat 3, like slow samba bass) That approach simulates the cut time feel that bass players like Ray Brown often use. | |
| orson -- 11/10/2004, 10:13:10 -- #8818 | |
| Wow, thanks for the prompt and very useful information. What a great site! I did not know about the Bill Evans/Jim Hall albums, I'm going to try and pick them up ASAP. Regarding the recommended cut/half note time and walking patterns-- can I use these when there are two changes per bar? For example, should I just leave out the 5ths and play roots only, or should I play the 5ths on 2 and 4? For walking with two changes per bar, do I just play the root of the first chord on 1, the 7th of the next chord on 2, the next root on 3, etc? I'm guessing there are lots of possibilities... | |
| marksdg -- 11/10/2004, 10:25:33 -- #8820 | |
| When there are two changes per bar, a standard walking base is to do the root on 1 and 3 and do leading notes to the next chord on two and four (leading notes being a 1/2 or whole step above or below the next chord). So, for example if you have a chord progression A-7 D-7 | G7 C7| you can do a walking base pattern of A Eb D Ab | G Db C E You can also add in quick notes between the beats, or even 2 or 3 note runs (like chromatic, scale notes or arpeggios) usually ending with a 1/2 step to the next root on the beat. I also like to do a quick lead with a root in the upper octave (like for a G7 chord walking with G A B G->C D where -> denotes a fast transition). | |
| Jazz+ -- 11/12/2004, 10:58:33 -- #8890 | |
| Mark answered the question for the walking chords that last two beats. For half note bass style jut play the roots when you have a chord every two beats and again play Root on beat one and 5th on beat three when it lasts 4 beats or longer. | |
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