continued from last weeks' thread.....

here's the info i posted last week about voicing types/concepts from the thread below("jill scott")with some new stuff that's a continuation of what the earlier posts were about-

a lot of what goes on in the styles you're referring to(which i also am into)re-minor and dom 7 is the use of a modal approach vs. a basic chord approach-i.e. using 125 or 145-type/"cluster" voicing shapes over the root pedal..there's a lot of theory based on this involved which i could post when i have time over the next week or so......taking a look at transcriptions/written arrangements that use this approach(including exactly where re-piano voicing range these type of structures are played will help.........  

you might begin by taking a look at this-  

https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?action=files&sub=file_details&id=1075409616  

then check out the voicings concept explained in this thread below-  
"conception/execution re-practice routine focus"  

also this-https://www.modaljazz.com/index.htm  

for info about "clusters"-
https://www.melbay.com/creativekeyboard/aug07/hinz.html
(don't forget you can "pare down" the structures shown,using less notes and different combinations/inversions....  

although this is a guitar site,the theory involved here is a big part of understanding the style.....
https://people.uncw.edu/russellr/pentharm.html  

the way to conceptualize this stuff i think is to visualize a voicing shape/"template" that can be transposed to different places over the root pedal..we dealt with this here before,i'll see if i can find the thread...........the main  thing to keep in mind is how a quartal structure inverted = 145 and 125 structures..also you want to learn about how to use the pent.minor to develop voicings using the same kind of concept..more about this stuff as soon as i find where i've written out some of the kinds of voicings involved and post them.......

by smg on 03/03/2008, 17:12:46 # 40563

first off this is the link i was talking about-https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?intro_off=1&action=forum&sub=display_thread&id=37505&bid=37740

scroll down and you'll see where the same quartal voicing is used in the rh over different bass notes in the lh.....

directly related to these concepts is the following which is explained and dealt with at length in m. harrisons' excellent and recomended "pop piano" book(i'll give you the link for it in a sec):an approach to using  fourth intervals within the minor pentatonic as rh voicings over different bass notes in the lh.
basically what you do is take the pent. minor(c pent.minor =c eb f g bb)and locate the perfect fourths(i.e.fbb/gc/bbeb/cf,respectively  
4 b7/5 1/ b7 b3/1 11) and use them individually over each of the following roots-c,eb,f,g,ab,and bb......check it out and see what you like the sound of then id the voicing type created and figure out ways of using it in your practice routine.........here's the link-

by smg on 03/03/2008, 17:30:31

https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/book.asp?ppn=bkhl220011

by smg on 03/03/2008, 17:32:19

hey smg, i really really appreciate all this info, this is just the stuff i'm after.  i already have 'the pop piano book' by mark harrison, which section would you recommend looking at?  the first few chapters seem quite simple, would you suggest looking at the r'n'b/funk section?  i'll have a look at those chords as soon as im near my keyboard, can't wait to try them out.  

thanks again

jazz

by jazz jasper on 03/03/2008, 18:15:16

for jj and anyone else re-mh book usage-

pg.192 deals w/what i outlined above.....

for a "crossover" player(i.e.fluent in  r+b in all it's forms,so-called "new-age/"smooth jazz" concepts and how they all tie in w/ a valid contemporary-based jazz piano style) ,i'd recommend taking a look at the beginning chapters where he gets into the basics of using diatonic triads and four-part voicings over various roots,also then(depending on whether or not you also want to develop a knowledge /awareness of the various techniques used in pop styles) go through each section following and see what you want to work on......i can give you some pg.#s if you want.......

a lot of what i've been focusing on i mentioned in the other thread here re-metronome factors.........however in each chapter of the style analysis mentioned he gets into some chord theory that is very valuable,i.e.in the new age chapter he deals with quartal based harmonies,in the funk/r+b section he looks at both standard pop/rock/fusion voicings and pent minor ideas,etc....depends on what you want to get together,including how the gospel styles fit into the whole picture....take a look at the other post for some info re-using the sections to develop 2-hand coordination skills......

by smg on 03/05/2008, 12:14:37

i was thinking about this and a couple of other sections you want to check out are-
-"cluster" voicings and similar types
-triad/four-note 4-3/9-1 resolution patterns over different roots has some exercises in minor that have the exact type of voicings being focused on for the style in question..

i'll post the pg.#'s for these and some other sections as right now i'm going through a list i made of what i've been working on(don't forget this book is a very complete work and you can spend a lot of time with all the different sections)and deciding which to focus on as part of my routine...........

by smg on 03/05/2008, 13:49:49

hey smg, ive just spent the past couple of hours reading through the first part of the book (chapters 1 to 10).  im very surprised i missed all of this as i thought i knew most of the theory however i seem to not know much about the triad/fourths over roots theory.  i understand it now, however i still need to work out how to put this theory into contemporary progressions.  

i can now hear the 'jill scott' sounds for each individual chord, however i need to know what order to place them in.  is there any part of the book that explains what is behind the ordering of these new 'chord over root' voicings, or do you have any tips for ordering them?

many thanks again, really enjoying your posts,

jazz

by jazz jasper on 03/05/2008, 18:20:34

do you think it is just a case of experimentation?  i like the idea of experimenting on page 78.  what do you think?  do you think people developing this sort of music have a basic idea of taking these 'chord over root' voicings and putting them in a specific order (for example in traditional jazz, the jazzmen knew that by taking 7th chords and placing them in the order 2-5-1 they would get the jazz sound), or do you think the guys out there are just experimenting and that there is no order to these voicings and chord qualities?

by jazz jasper on 03/05/2008, 18:24:48

here are the page #'s for the sections mentioned above-

-"cluster" voicings and similar types-from pg 231 continuing,
esp.13.12,13.14 and 13.20
-triad/four-note 4-3/9-1-pg 109 cont.,esp 8.18....

as far as what you're talking about,there are a few ways to interpret it..if you're talking about the order of structures over a fixed root or progressions using them as individual chords moving towards a resolution point..... the chart on pg.78 does open up the door to all the possible options for that concept using the cycle,i want to spend some more time w/it and check out what kinds of things are involved along with other charts and studies i've got related to composition like that...........

by smg on 03/05/2008, 18:43:35

another important aspect of the contemporary r+b style involved here is where you play triad inversions re-range:here's a bar from a recent hit using this concept-

b root in bass register for 2 beats moving up an octave for the last 2

rh plays inv. of bm starting on d above middle c-d f# b to f# b d above it to b d f# above that down to the root position triad an octave down starting on the b just below midle c-not only is this a nice pattern to use but it's a good exercise to practice through the keys using whatever pattern you want.....

re-yesterdays' discussion about "order"-maybe this is what you're talking about-which rh voicings are used to imply each of the chords in a 2-5 -1 i.e d/fc  g/fb c/eb type-cadences using these voicing concepts?if so,one thing to realize right away is that the same "modal-based" rh voicing can be used for both the 2 and the 5 chord in most situations.........

by smg on 03/06/2008, 10:26:04