Leaving out the third on LearnJazzPiano.com

Jazz Piano Book Reviews • Piano Teacher Search • Jazz Piano Links • Jazz Piano Lessons

The Piano Lounge

Leaving out the third

what is the notation for a chord without the third?

for example, a c7 without the third being c, g, bb, c

by marksdg on 04/21/2004, 13:17

There are 10 comments, leave a comment.

c7(omit 3) or c7(no 3)

LJP Like

by savage on 04/21/2004, 13:45

savage is correct  but you may re evaluate your musical situation and re
evalute whether the chord is acutally functioning as a c7 chord after all.  without a 3rd it probally is not.  maybe it is more acuratly a g minor chord with a tension 11 added to it or  a g sus 4 chord.  its just that a c7 chord is a "dominant chord".  a dominant chord of all the chords has one of the most distinct sounds and musical functions.  without the third it loses that,  making c7(no 3rd) even though correct
symbolism a bit of a contadiction in termonology.  sort of like saying..
powerful rifleman (with no rifle).

LJP Like

by Mike on 04/22/2004, 04:17

the chord i'm playing is based on what gene harris does on the first chord of 'lu's blues' in his maybeck recording. he starts this 8 bar blues in f by holding a chord which has c, g bb, c. the c is in the base, and the chord which follows it is an f7, so it seems appropriate to call it some kind of c chord.

LJP Like

by marksdg on 04/22/2004, 06:18

using the cycle of 5ths as a guide in understanding this(going back in the forum will get you to some threads that deal with this in detail)will show you that c "resolves/moves" to f(chord type is secondary here),the logic behind what mike posted applies to this 100%.leaving out the third in this context as a voicing option doesn't affect things as much as in other situations......bassist might be playing it or duration of chord in context of arrangement might be a factor in it working or(most importantly),it might be there but doesn't sound like it to your ear based on how he's voicing the chord..a little while ago i posted some dom7th voicing options you might want to check out..maybe 5 pg. in(??)

LJP Like

by smg on 04/22/2004, 08:52

third is very important because it determines major or minor mode of a chord.
comparing with sex, major = male, minor = female, omitting third produces something asexual, indefinite, vague... are you thinking something bad? about a third sex? mhhh...
when i play a 11 or a #11 chord i always omit 3, producing an impresionistic atmosphere.

LJP Like

by albetan on 04/22/2004, 09:07

often a chord without a third will be called "open". if no tonal center is eszablished it can serve an ambiguous function.

however if the tonal center is well defined, the type of third ommitted will still be implied by the tonal center.

if an "open c7" is followed by an f7, it strongly implies the tonality of bb major and therefore also strongly inmplies that the missing third of the c7 chord is an eb.

i don't know the song "lu's blues", but if it really is a blues, one of the defining elements of the blues style is ambiguity as regards the thirds. typically the harmony uses a major third, yet the melody uses minor thirds.

if the tonal center of "lu's blues" is f major (f blues major), there is no doubt that your chord is a regular dominant c7 and that the missing third is major. leaving out the third in the bass is a common feature of both blues and funk.

if you are really concerned about what the possible quality of the missing third is, look to the tonal center for the answer.

7

LJP Like

by 7 on 04/22/2004, 09:40

however if the tonal center is well defined, the type of third ommitted will still be implied by the tonal center. (this is what i was trying to get at)

LJP Like

by smg on 04/22/2004, 12:53

btw jeff,which tune on cptb was it?

LJP Like

by smg on 04/22/2004, 12:54

a third sex? think of the possibilites....

LJP Like

by Rick on 04/22/2004, 13:48

we're joking around but in reality all around the world sensitive people exist(maybe even check out ljp) who are anatomically this way...

LJP Like

by smg on 04/22/2004, 14:38

Reply to Thread

Please sign in to post.

Jazz Piano Notebook Series

Scot Ranney's Jazz Piano Notebook, Volume 1 - jazz piano tricks of the trade

Volume 1 of this educational jazz piano book contains 15 jazz piano exercises, tricks, and other interesting jazz piano techniques, voicings, grooves, and ideas Scot Ranney enjoys playing.

buy pdf version - buy coil binding version - videos

Scot Ranney's Jazz Piano Notebook, Volume 2 - jazz piano tricks of the trade you can use today

"Latinesque"

Volume 2 has 14 jazz piano exercises and tricks of the trade, and quite a bit of it is Calypso jazz piano related material, including some Monty Alexander and Michel Camilo style grooves. Jazz piano education is through the ears, but books like this can help.

buy pdf version - buy coil binding version

Tim Richards' Jazz Piano Notebook - jazz piano tricks of the trade

Volume 3 contains 12 jazz piano exercises and explorations by the acclaimed jazz piano educator, pianist, author, and recording artist Tim Richards.

Tim wrote the well known "Exploring Jazz Piano" and "Improvising Blues Piano" books and has several others to his name.

buy pdf version - buy coil binding version

Jeff Brent's Jazz Piano Notebook - jazz piano tricks of the trade

Volume 4 is by Jeff Brent, a jazz pianist, composer, teacher, and author of "Modalogy" and other acclaimed jazz theory and education books. In this book Jeff shares detailed analysis of transcriptions of live performances. He covers everything from the shape of the songs to the tricks and licks he uses in improvised lines to the ideas behind his lush chord voicings.

buy pdf version - buy coil binding version

Jazz piano education is cool.

be the main character in your own story

Leaving out the third

There are 10 comments, leave a comment.

by savage on 04/21/2004, 13:45

by Mike on 04/22/2004, 04:17

by marksdg on 04/22/2004, 06:18

by smg on 04/22/2004, 08:52

by albetan on 04/22/2004, 09:07

by 7 on 04/22/2004, 09:40

by smg on 04/22/2004, 12:53

by smg on 04/22/2004, 12:54

by Rick on 04/22/2004, 13:48

by smg on 04/22/2004, 14:38

Reply to Thread

Jazz Piano Notebook Series

"Latinesque"

LJP Jazz Piano Blogs

Most Recent Discussions

Articles

Top Sheetmusic Picks

Jazz piano education is cool.

Rock on. Follow your passion.

Sign In

Sign In to LearnJazzPiano.com

Leaving out the third

There are 10 comments, leave a comment.

by savage on 04/21/2004, 13:45

by Mike on 04/22/2004, 04:17

by marksdg on 04/22/2004, 06:18

by smg on 04/22/2004, 08:52

by albetan on 04/22/2004, 09:07

by 7 on 04/22/2004, 09:40

by smg on 04/22/2004, 12:53

by smg on 04/22/2004, 12:54

by Rick on 04/22/2004, 13:48

by smg on 04/22/2004, 14:38

Reply to Thread

Jazz Piano Notebook Series

"Latinesque"

LJP Jazz Piano Blogs

Most Recent Discussions

Articles

Top Sheetmusic Picks

Jazz piano education is cool.

Rock on. Follow your passion.

Sign In