request...........
this is something i've been debating posting for a while.
when anybody new to ljp shows up looking for info and we spend time posting replies,links,etc,it'd be appreciated if you would at least let us know if the stuff we posted is what you were looking for if not continuing to stay involved over here.more often than not,player x says they're dealing with situation x and looking for advice,info,links,etc.,we post things,and that's the last we ever hear of it.....
whats' up with this?????
when anybody new to ljp shows up looking for info and we spend time posting replies,links,etc,it'd be appreciated if you would at least let us know if the stuff we posted is what you were looking for if not continuing to stay involved over here.more often than not,player x says they're dealing with situation x and looking for advice,info,links,etc.,we post things,and that's the last we ever hear of it.....
whats' up with this?????
There are 12 comments, leave a comment.
seriously,jeff(and everybody else here that knows what i mean,that takes time to post things and then the person who started the thread is nowhere to be found....)isn't this kind of messed up?..like over the weekend with the person asking about secondary dominants that myself and 7 responded to....if you're going to ask for help at least let us know you got it..am i right?
its'like so many of the other situations we musicians/composers deal with that "challenge us" to be part of the negative vibes that the world of people only doing things when $ is involved represent re-just being a positive force on the planet.....(to the extent it's realistically possible..)anyways........
the implications of this thread get into a lot of things i myself refuse to be about,and lead to areas of thinking i won't be a part of either;i like being involved here and will continue to be,just wanted to post this.....
its'like so many of the other situations we musicians/composers deal with that "challenge us" to be part of the negative vibes that the world of people only doing things when $ is involved represent re-just being a positive force on the planet.....(to the extent it's realistically possible..)anyways........
the implications of this thread get into a lot of things i myself refuse to be about,and lead to areas of thinking i won't be a part of either;i like being involved here and will continue to be,just wanted to post this.....
right or wrong i equate everything here with classroom situations.
you are talking about the students that ask a question and then just have a blank stare as you answer them, then they leave the class ...
the topic never comes up again or they drop out for the semester and you never see them again.... so what do you do.... i just hope for better luck with the next student... there are worse classroom situations...
the hostile student for example. the times when the principle comes into the class and takes the side of the hostile student....
i guess then i just think about all the money im making and remember i gotta pay the bills somehow.
you are talking about the students that ask a question and then just have a blank stare as you answer them, then they leave the class ...
the topic never comes up again or they drop out for the semester and you never see them again.... so what do you do.... i just hope for better luck with the next student... there are worse classroom situations...
the hostile student for example. the times when the principle comes into the class and takes the side of the hostile student....
i guess then i just think about all the money im making and remember i gotta pay the bills somehow.
i do understand your frustration gary. i noticed that in albetan's area yesterday most of his files had been downloaded hundreds of times and i think he had one review giving positive feedback.
it is annoying if you have spent time on trying to post something constructive. however, one thing that might be of consolation is to think that any good posts are helping to form a really good ljp reference library for anyone who needs it.
also, taking your secondary dominant posts as an example, i'm sure there are lots of people who will have found that useful, even if they weren't the ones that asked the question.
i doubt that people are being deliberately rude, it's just the quick fix, easy access nature of the net. how many times do you see a post that says simply 'i'm a beginner, please help me to play jazz'. those posts say to me that the person posted it hasn't even bothered to look around the site - i mean, there is a whole part of the site that goes under the 'lessons' banner before you even get into files from contributors. that would seem like a good place to start. if people can't be bothered to check that out then they certainly won't worry about giving you feedback when you've tried to help them out.
there are plenty of us here that know and value your contributions and your willingness to help anyone has enhanced the ljp communtity no end - don't worry about it.
barry
btw one thing that did occur the other day - what about setting up a sort of communal faq room, similar to the old site faq's where we could post the answers to common questions as they occur. maybe if a post is nominated and then seconded by two other people then it gets to go in the faq or something. what do you think?
it is annoying if you have spent time on trying to post something constructive. however, one thing that might be of consolation is to think that any good posts are helping to form a really good ljp reference library for anyone who needs it.
also, taking your secondary dominant posts as an example, i'm sure there are lots of people who will have found that useful, even if they weren't the ones that asked the question.
i doubt that people are being deliberately rude, it's just the quick fix, easy access nature of the net. how many times do you see a post that says simply 'i'm a beginner, please help me to play jazz'. those posts say to me that the person posted it hasn't even bothered to look around the site - i mean, there is a whole part of the site that goes under the 'lessons' banner before you even get into files from contributors. that would seem like a good place to start. if people can't be bothered to check that out then they certainly won't worry about giving you feedback when you've tried to help them out.
there are plenty of us here that know and value your contributions and your willingness to help anyone has enhanced the ljp communtity no end - don't worry about it.
barry
btw one thing that did occur the other day - what about setting up a sort of communal faq room, similar to the old site faq's where we could post the answers to common questions as they occur. maybe if a post is nominated and then seconded by two other people then it gets to go in the faq or something. what do you think?
1. explanations in this technical field take some time to digest. sometimes a principle requires a great deal of study time before the real benefits can be seen. in the interim the thread has gone cold. therefore no response.
2. (to paraphrase auntie) generosity without expectation of recompense is the mark of a truly noble soul. therefore "no response required".
3. or else they "just don't get it".
therefore no response.
remember that the files we upload here could still be around centuries from now. maybe what we do really does matter!
7
2. (to paraphrase auntie) generosity without expectation of recompense is the mark of a truly noble soul. therefore "no response required".
3. or else they "just don't get it".
therefore no response.
remember that the files we upload here could still be around centuries from now. maybe what we do really does matter!
7
gary – don’t go there or you’ll get a site full of appreciative responses that may be gratifying but take up valuable (and i mean valuable) space.. imho people, like myself, learn sooooooooooooo much from this site that we’re immersed in more and more study and need to disappear from view but still lurk for a while. i hope i have thanked those who have provided timely and accurate help directly and thanked all others who help indirectly. i often think about posting thanks or comments regarding discussions of particular areas but usually come to the conclusion that this will serve little purpose. for example, i often feel like saying, “mike, i love your comments and i think you’re very brave” but what good will that do? perhaps i’m wrong and you all need support and/or reassurance that your time is well spent. it is.
we learn in so many ways: i suspect many of us logging on to ljp learn vicariously (which this site facilitates so well). i equate this style of learning to when i used to get students to give presentations and then watch the observers as (quite a few) indicate a ‘eureka’ moment. you don’t get to see the ‘eureka’ moment when teaching in this format.
if your students disappear for a while or neglect you, it is because you all have given them so much to concentrate on but i bet that most of them have sorted through all the advice and selected what they consider that they need. they are probably busy working on it… but i bet they are still lurking and very grateful. one thing learned from ljp is the ability to select the advice that is appropriate to yourself at that particular stage in your music education, be it ii v is, how to improvise and/or, perhaps later, how to arrange a set list or get paid for what you do.
apologies if i’m rambling here – back to the phil de greg progression exercises …prior to the aebersold course… - prior to the dave frank how to improv etc etc – see what i mean?
we learn in so many ways: i suspect many of us logging on to ljp learn vicariously (which this site facilitates so well). i equate this style of learning to when i used to get students to give presentations and then watch the observers as (quite a few) indicate a ‘eureka’ moment. you don’t get to see the ‘eureka’ moment when teaching in this format.
if your students disappear for a while or neglect you, it is because you all have given them so much to concentrate on but i bet that most of them have sorted through all the advice and selected what they consider that they need. they are probably busy working on it… but i bet they are still lurking and very grateful. one thing learned from ljp is the ability to select the advice that is appropriate to yourself at that particular stage in your music education, be it ii v is, how to improvise and/or, perhaps later, how to arrange a set list or get paid for what you do.
apologies if i’m rambling here – back to the phil de greg progression exercises …prior to the aebersold course… - prior to the dave frank how to improv etc etc – see what i mean?
thanks a million kai. actually a compliment now and then does make the difference between hanging in there and not. every time the negative comments make even the strongest teacher or performer consider staying at home and not sharing anything. but in general constant reinforcement would be out of place. thanks for your responce.
smg here...
yesterday i was going to post something after barrys' post but didn't have time;today i see there are 7 posts here now and,although i of course will be reading the others my colleagues here at ljp have posted,something even more important needs to be addressed as well as the original subject of this thread.
the internet is very often a place where people with "agendas" have a chance to get into all kinds of interpersonal bs in what is a "safer" way for them than to actually manifest these kinds of vibrations in reality with real live people.the extent that the ll is a place reflecting that,instead of what myself and the others who take what goes on here seriously,want to help people with their specific musical goals,is easily seen when posts that are about actual requests for info,discussions about musical topics,etc.invariably get 1 or 2 responses before being relegated to the scrap heap,while posts that in my honest opinion reflect nothing more than an online version of the negative stereotype of jazz players who have personal issues preventing them from achieving the success their actual abilities would provide sitting around after a lowpaying,frustrating gig "inebriated and venting" in a way that discourages other musically focused ljp'ers around the world from involving themselves here get many,many replies,as pointless personal attacks on great musicians become a form of online "ping-pong"..........
you'll notice that the name "smg" is never seen on these threads;decidedly so.
my purpose in posting the thread was not in any way connected with the idea that i "need to feel appreciated" here or other ego-related bs,as the first response immediately twisted its' meaning to appear to be,and other replies followed suit,quickly starting to turn this thread into another of the negative type i referred to. i truly regret this has happened.out of respect for the people involved, their musical knowledge and contributions over here,with whom i've had the pleasure of being part of things here while trying to remain unaffected by aspects of interpersonal things which reflect exactly the type of thing i've described,i will not be posting anything else on this thread.if,on the other hand, people want to take a look at the other threads i've posted on this page and reply to them(something which has yet to happen),this would be a different matter.
let me close by stating again the purpose of the thread and my original motivation in posting it-
anyone who has been part of ljp for a while knows i am the kind of contributor who "follows up" what i contribute to see if those who are interested in the specific subject matter did in fact get what they wanted;if not,is there an aspect they would like more info about?i take what i do seriously over here and while of course there is,as barrys'reply correctly addressed,a certain measure of personal satisfaction in doing this(especially in my case as someone who once "quit music"),to be percieved as someone who "disgraces himself" by "asking for applause" is the type of situation which i see created by this thread now;thus my decision.
we all as creative artists at whatever level of success and status have the capacity to rise above the pettiness a culture and society which only values the arts to the extent they are "usable" in the context of a money-oriented value system creates.
it being the height of the summer,a full moon,etc,i'd ask all people involved here to take a deep breath and move on;not see this thread as a chance to "finally drag smg into all the negative bs as well".......
peace.
yesterday i was going to post something after barrys' post but didn't have time;today i see there are 7 posts here now and,although i of course will be reading the others my colleagues here at ljp have posted,something even more important needs to be addressed as well as the original subject of this thread.
the internet is very often a place where people with "agendas" have a chance to get into all kinds of interpersonal bs in what is a "safer" way for them than to actually manifest these kinds of vibrations in reality with real live people.the extent that the ll is a place reflecting that,instead of what myself and the others who take what goes on here seriously,want to help people with their specific musical goals,is easily seen when posts that are about actual requests for info,discussions about musical topics,etc.invariably get 1 or 2 responses before being relegated to the scrap heap,while posts that in my honest opinion reflect nothing more than an online version of the negative stereotype of jazz players who have personal issues preventing them from achieving the success their actual abilities would provide sitting around after a lowpaying,frustrating gig "inebriated and venting" in a way that discourages other musically focused ljp'ers around the world from involving themselves here get many,many replies,as pointless personal attacks on great musicians become a form of online "ping-pong"..........
you'll notice that the name "smg" is never seen on these threads;decidedly so.
my purpose in posting the thread was not in any way connected with the idea that i "need to feel appreciated" here or other ego-related bs,as the first response immediately twisted its' meaning to appear to be,and other replies followed suit,quickly starting to turn this thread into another of the negative type i referred to. i truly regret this has happened.out of respect for the people involved, their musical knowledge and contributions over here,with whom i've had the pleasure of being part of things here while trying to remain unaffected by aspects of interpersonal things which reflect exactly the type of thing i've described,i will not be posting anything else on this thread.if,on the other hand, people want to take a look at the other threads i've posted on this page and reply to them(something which has yet to happen),this would be a different matter.
let me close by stating again the purpose of the thread and my original motivation in posting it-
anyone who has been part of ljp for a while knows i am the kind of contributor who "follows up" what i contribute to see if those who are interested in the specific subject matter did in fact get what they wanted;if not,is there an aspect they would like more info about?i take what i do seriously over here and while of course there is,as barrys'reply correctly addressed,a certain measure of personal satisfaction in doing this(especially in my case as someone who once "quit music"),to be percieved as someone who "disgraces himself" by "asking for applause" is the type of situation which i see created by this thread now;thus my decision.
we all as creative artists at whatever level of success and status have the capacity to rise above the pettiness a culture and society which only values the arts to the extent they are "usable" in the context of a money-oriented value system creates.
it being the height of the summer,a full moon,etc,i'd ask all people involved here to take a deep breath and move on;not see this thread as a chance to "finally drag smg into all the negative bs as well".......
peace.
naturally the beggining of any one topic always entails the risk of that
topic leading to other topics. this is not unique to the internet. alls i know is that i meant no disrespect in my responce. i was just saying i can relate, and offering my own perspective.
topic leading to other topics. this is not unique to the internet. alls i know is that i meant no disrespect in my responce. i was just saying i can relate, and offering my own perspective.
sorry for misunderstanding what you meant, gary, in the first post. you meant that you would like feedback – not applause – right? please don’t leave ljp. it would be a shame if ljp lost your contributions. your perception of the requests for help and your offered solutions are useful to so many, including an unknown quantity (but many, judging by the user log) lurkers. sure, some of our valued contributors have a ‘wicked’ sense of humour, but maybe they don’t feel like being serious all the time and, like yourself, many of us don’t join in if we feel that the topic is of no interest to us or getting slightly ‘ bitter’.
speaking generally now, i have asked for advice and received many well-intentioned responses. i have selected the advice that i considered appropriate for ‘where i’m at’ in my musical education. all of the responses have been appreciated, some of the advice, on occasions, has been too much to deal with at the time and some of it has seemed confusing. i have felt that it would not be appropriate to say when the advice has not been useful, especially since that same advice may have been useful to other lurkers. i have gleaned a vast amount of knowledge from responses to other users’ questions, such as many of your links and responses made by 7 particularly, yet he is one among many.
i have to say, though, that if i were asked to provide feedback on each occasion, i would feel that i was reporting back to a teacher and would be put under pressure. this would result in me avoiding questions altogether. that is just how i, personally, would feel about it.
on a more amusing note, i did learn when teaching that it is best to ask for feedback (on my teaching methods) before the students receive their results – not after!!!!!!!!!!! may be i wasn’t that good a teacher – good job i’m now retired.
this post was meant to be helpful, so please don’t be offended or even consider leaving.
speaking generally now, i have asked for advice and received many well-intentioned responses. i have selected the advice that i considered appropriate for ‘where i’m at’ in my musical education. all of the responses have been appreciated, some of the advice, on occasions, has been too much to deal with at the time and some of it has seemed confusing. i have felt that it would not be appropriate to say when the advice has not been useful, especially since that same advice may have been useful to other lurkers. i have gleaned a vast amount of knowledge from responses to other users’ questions, such as many of your links and responses made by 7 particularly, yet he is one among many.
i have to say, though, that if i were asked to provide feedback on each occasion, i would feel that i was reporting back to a teacher and would be put under pressure. this would result in me avoiding questions altogether. that is just how i, personally, would feel about it.
on a more amusing note, i did learn when teaching that it is best to ask for feedback (on my teaching methods) before the students receive their results – not after!!!!!!!!!!! may be i wasn’t that good a teacher – good job i’m now retired.
this post was meant to be helpful, so please don’t be offended or even consider leaving.
gary, jeff, mike, prof. betancourt and others responding to my couple of posts previously... i really took the advice presented on my couple of posts and and am working on the resulting game plan... i'm sure there are others like me (but younger). to wit: i have been playing 4 years, i am an older adult who never touched a keyboard before starting this quest, and i'll tell you, guys, this site is like trying to drink from a firehose...
i am truly convinced being able to execute the material on this and other linked sites would produce a fine jazz pianist... the problem is getting these 60-year old fingers to retrace the same path over the keys two times in a row... it takes a lotta time to get the chops. i am making progress, but the gains seem to come with agonizing slowness, and there is only so much time in a day (i try to get an hour a day - sometimes more if i can cram in 20-30 minutes before work...).
i can't begin to express how much i appreciate the time you guys spend sharing your expertise with me (and anyone else), even when i usually just read the posts and follow the links, without commenting directly. it's just that anything i try is gonna take weeks, not days, to use. i also have weekly lessons, and i download far more than i have time to try to learn, particularly since i have no former background in piano.
just wanted to let you-all (that fine southern term) know that you are truly appreciated.
i am truly convinced being able to execute the material on this and other linked sites would produce a fine jazz pianist... the problem is getting these 60-year old fingers to retrace the same path over the keys two times in a row... it takes a lotta time to get the chops. i am making progress, but the gains seem to come with agonizing slowness, and there is only so much time in a day (i try to get an hour a day - sometimes more if i can cram in 20-30 minutes before work...).
i can't begin to express how much i appreciate the time you guys spend sharing your expertise with me (and anyone else), even when i usually just read the posts and follow the links, without commenting directly. it's just that anything i try is gonna take weeks, not days, to use. i also have weekly lessons, and i download far more than i have time to try to learn, particularly since i have no former background in piano.
just wanted to let you-all (that fine southern term) know that you are truly appreciated.
thanks a mica terry,
peace
peace
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