Piano Tuning
i am finding that my piano starts to go really badly out of tune after about 6 months. is this normal for other people? perhaps it is because of the humidity change, but i am thinking of getting it tuned twice a year instead of once a year. i was thinking about getting a digital piano to play when my piano is too badly out of tune, but realized it would be cheaper just to pay for 2 tunings per year.
what are other people's experiences with pianos going out of tune, and i am curious if it is different in different parts of the country.
what are other people's experiences with pianos going out of tune, and i am curious if it is different in different parts of the country.
There are no comments, leave a comment.
if you are a serious player and play for at least 4+ hours day, then you might have to have it tune 3-4 times a year, i live in the south where its real hot so i had to get mine tuned 3 times a year.
jv'
jv'
i've tuned the pianos i've had & my opinion is that there is no such thing as a perfectly tuned piano. all pianos i've tested have imperfections, after all just look how many strings there are! and they go out immediately albeit a teeny tiny amount somewhere or other! is there ever a time where at least one string isn't? practically all other musicians tune their own instruments, pianists in general know the least about how their instrument functions. it's very interesting to read books on the subject of piano building, tuning & repair. also it's great when you can tune your own, i mean it sounds so great afterwards, plus you can fix "problem notes" anytime + fine tune notes. no time? not the best thing to do but one thing you can do is tune one note a day, all up & down the keyboard; then in 12 days you're done. much better than not tuning it at all! when you're on a roll, do two or more so the time can be trimmed down.
i tweak mine here and there in between tunings, but have a pro tune the whole once in a while (and it's been quite a while). if you get yourself a hammer and a couple mutes, you can do it too:)
i actually learned how to tune the whole thing but found it very tedious and frustrating. my first (and last) time it took 4 hours and when it was all finished the piano sounded terrible!! ha...i'd rather spend my time listening and practicing:)
i actually learned how to tune the whole thing but found it very tedious and frustrating. my first (and last) time it took 4 hours and when it was all finished the piano sounded terrible!! ha...i'd rather spend my time listening and practicing:)
piano tuners who are also pianists always say "never tune your own piano".
you'll never be satisfied and you'll spend more time "just tweaking one more little note" than actually playing it.
for anyone interested, here is a pdf article i posted on piano tuning (found on this site over in the files section of the "piano tech" room):
https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?file=1112943708
or see the html version:
https://jeff-brent.com/lessons/pianotuning.html
you'll never be satisfied and you'll spend more time "just tweaking one more little note" than actually playing it.
for anyone interested, here is a pdf article i posted on piano tuning (found on this site over in the files section of the "piano tech" room):
https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?file=1112943708
or see the html version:
https://jeff-brent.com/lessons/pianotuning.html
on the flip piano's are simply a stringed instrument just like a guitar. guitarists often can not make it thru a tune without tuning.
if i were a rich man, a very very rich man, i would have the best tuner/tech come and tune and go over over my steinway once a week if not more.
if i were a rich man, a very very rich man, i would have the best tuner/tech come and tune and go over over my steinway once a week if not more.
so really you tune a piano as much as you can afford... where i live and for my ear four times a year is bare minimum and i would start planing bank jobs if i could not afford that.
my baldwin grand sounds good for at least a week after a tuning. i think i will have to start doing my own in-between tunings, too.
humidity seems to be the biggest factor. i'm not going to install one of those heater/water things under the soundboard, so i try to keep the house temperature and humidity as constant as possible.
i'm getting the "summer" tuning done this week. the piano will sound ok until the weather changes this fall.
humidity seems to be the biggest factor. i'm not going to install one of those heater/water things under the soundboard, so i try to keep the house temperature and humidity as constant as possible.
i'm getting the "summer" tuning done this week. the piano will sound ok until the weather changes this fall.
my dad is a piano tuner. he reccomends to have the piano tuned every 6 months for the average use.
my dad has been tuning pianos for more than 20 years. for him, it usually takes about an hour or hour and a half for the usual piano. i have tuned a few pianos myself, and it takes me quite a bit longer. and its so tedious. i dont know how he does it.
my dad has been tuning pianos for more than 20 years. for him, it usually takes about an hour or hour and a half for the usual piano. i have tuned a few pianos myself, and it takes me quite a bit longer. and its so tedious. i dont know how he does it.
however mike, tuning that often will probably prematurely wear out the tuning pin holes, unfortunately, too bad it's not a perfect world. has anyone ever tuned a 12-string guitar? this will give you a taste of it. i recommend to anyone to before they attempt to tune their own to read up on it, such as the appropriate section of piano tuning & repair, by arthur a. reblitz. otherwise you may make a serious boo-boo. if i could redo my life, i would've gone to school for this field. great money, meet musicians, etc. it's a great job & you can still play as well. confucious say, "happy is the man whose hobby is his job."
also, i have a tip that works for me regarding the tuning of the extreme high treble & deepest bass notes. here it is:
just run an arpeggio & end with that high or low note you're tuning, & make it sound good. this generally gives more pleasing to the ear results than any other method.
also billy & dr. whack it is tedious but just remember, with patience it is achievable, & it is very satisfying when you're done. billy, if i where you i'd follow in your father's footprints, when i was younger i thought i'd make mucho $$$ & maybe even get famous playing, i should've also in college majored in music education cause now i'm often envious of the nice life good music teachers have. i for one could never burn out, i would love to teach much more than i have. music has so many areas which is what makes it so nice. i myself do these: 1. working on polishing & learning new great classical pieces, in which i mainly use the manuscript as opposed to total memorization. 2. technique exercises, many of which i myself came up with. 3. jazz & other styles work where i mainly am guided by fake books. 4. going over my voicing & progression collection, adding more etc. these are in no particular order & mix freely, sometimes one will dominate which makes it so refreshing when you switch. with me for example after a classical binge of perhaps many weeks i suddenly find the music just too sweet & long for that spicy "sweet & sour" jazz, which in my opinion is the only place to go to further your chord & theory knowledge. then similarly after a jazz binge it starts to sound too sour & the classical music seems so smooth & quieting, very soothing.
just run an arpeggio & end with that high or low note you're tuning, & make it sound good. this generally gives more pleasing to the ear results than any other method.
also billy & dr. whack it is tedious but just remember, with patience it is achievable, & it is very satisfying when you're done. billy, if i where you i'd follow in your father's footprints, when i was younger i thought i'd make mucho $$$ & maybe even get famous playing, i should've also in college majored in music education cause now i'm often envious of the nice life good music teachers have. i for one could never burn out, i would love to teach much more than i have. music has so many areas which is what makes it so nice. i myself do these: 1. working on polishing & learning new great classical pieces, in which i mainly use the manuscript as opposed to total memorization. 2. technique exercises, many of which i myself came up with. 3. jazz & other styles work where i mainly am guided by fake books. 4. going over my voicing & progression collection, adding more etc. these are in no particular order & mix freely, sometimes one will dominate which makes it so refreshing when you switch. with me for example after a classical binge of perhaps many weeks i suddenly find the music just too sweet & long for that spicy "sweet & sour" jazz, which in my opinion is the only place to go to further your chord & theory knowledge. then similarly after a jazz binge it starts to sound too sour & the classical music seems so smooth & quieting, very soothing.
not that i'm an expert, but it seems v. hard to tune yourself, and maybe a bit of an underestimation? with equal temperment don't tuners have to count (hear) the beats in between certain intervals?
also, i have been told not to let the piano become too flat otherwise it is detrimental to the future stability of the tuning. when people sell pianos they will often advertise that it has been 'maintained at concert pitch'.
also, i have been told not to let the piano become too flat otherwise it is detrimental to the future stability of the tuning. when people sell pianos they will often advertise that it has been 'maintained at concert pitch'.
i find tuning mainly a matter of cool calculated patience & resolve. i use a tuning reference for setting the temperament, so then why learn counting beats? however i must admit the top one & a half octave is a doozy, as the strings are so short you have coarser control (the pitch changes faster when turning the pins) plus also since often there are false beats in single strings there. i often pluck the notes up there with a guitar pick, which helps to hear the note instead of the "clunk" from the hammers. sometimes i think why try so hard up there, many never play that high! but i do & i'm certain many of you do too. it is so intoxicatingly fun to play jazz chords after a tuning, man they really "howl" so cleanly! plus as you transpose the keys the same chord has a totally different "atmosphere" & feeling to it. endless delight...
wear out the pin block by too frequent of tunings?
methinks not!
if you look at a pin ouside the block you will see that the threads are extremely fine. pin blocks work on friction, which has everything to do with the quality of the plyed wood inside.
good quality pinblock wood (if it doesn't dry out) will stand for hundreds of years.
and if the pin holes do get too loose there are many ways to treat that that don't require major surgery - tuning pin liquid (swells the wood) & tuning pin hammer (drives the pins deeper).
methinks not!
if you look at a pin ouside the block you will see that the threads are extremely fine. pin blocks work on friction, which has everything to do with the quality of the plyed wood inside.
good quality pinblock wood (if it doesn't dry out) will stand for hundreds of years.
and if the pin holes do get too loose there are many ways to treat that that don't require major surgery - tuning pin liquid (swells the wood) & tuning pin hammer (drives the pins deeper).
i always touch up notes that go bad, but when it's time to lay down a temperment, i call in the real tuner.
i also recently found some software at https://tunelab-world.com/tlptrial.exe that is very interesting. i've recently given my old upright a very nice temperment and tuning using this software.
i also recently found some software at https://tunelab-world.com/tlptrial.exe that is very interesting. i've recently given my old upright a very nice temperment and tuning using this software.
If I'm not back in 24 hours, call the president.
Scot is available for skype jazz piano lessons (and google hangouts, phone call, etc...)
Use the contact link at the top of the page.
Scot is available for skype jazz piano lessons (and google hangouts, phone call, etc...)
Use the contact link at the top of the page.
by Scot Ranney on 06/15/2005, 12:06
the treads are indeed fine but they're there. it seems to me that weekly tunings will more than likely contribute to the problem of tuning pins not being as tight as desired because of eventually little-by-little eroding the wood in the tuning pin holes quicker than quarter-year tunings. even without threads a shaft will eventually widen its hole if you turn it a lot. don't forget the back & forth "filing" steel pin is much harder than the wood; if the reverse was true & the pinblock was made of steel & the pin of wood, then the pin would wear out. don't forget the immense tension of the wire pulling on the pin, contributing to the force. usually the older the piano, the looser the pins, mainly due to humidity factors, etc as you say. i never said that's what causes loose pins, too much tuning, but i feel it can help contribute, & how many people have pianos with the best pinblocks? i've never seen finished laminated pinblock wood sitting around the shop for 100s of years (hee hee), but i know you didn't mean that. but it doesn't matter anyway as once it's made its birth into a piano it slowly approaches death, just like us. tuning pin liquid usually makes the piano much harder to tune as often it makes the pins jerk rather than turn. however you look at it, sooner or later the pinblock's shot but probably then the piano is shot from other aging factors anyway, & perhaps we're getting shot by then as well. i think it's fair to say that the lifespan of a good piano is about the same as that of a person, with care. other food for thought; wires lose their elasticity around 25 yrs or so, affecting the sound. by then they're "max stretched out".
piano should be able to take monthly tunings for decades.
If I'm not back in 24 hours, call the president.
Scot is available for skype jazz piano lessons (and google hangouts, phone call, etc...)
Use the contact link at the top of the page.
Scot is available for skype jazz piano lessons (and google hangouts, phone call, etc...)
Use the contact link at the top of the page.
by Scot Ranney on 06/15/2005, 20:54
so there you have it! also it's important to have the tuning hammer as close to parallel as possible in relation to the string, because when you turn the hammer it does unfortunately to a point move the pin in the same direction as the force applied, & since this is lateral, it doesn't affect the pitch as much as when it's held at right angles (& so many tuners do this, dummies!). also the pin has a tendency to "jump back" from its "physically shifted in its hole" position later (as opposed to merely turning) & if the hammer was held at right angles this will mess up the pitch later. so you guys, parallel position please!
those nit-picky artists!
talking about pianos, i wish i had a petrof grand. i played only a few notes on one at huge piano warehouse in atlanta & i could just see the chandeliers! it had a sound you wouldn't believe but was over my budget, sniff.
Please sign in to post.
Jazz Piano Notebook Series
Volume 1 of this educational jazz piano book contains 15 jazz piano exercises, tricks, and other interesting jazz piano techniques, voicings, grooves, and ideas Scot Ranney enjoys playing.
"Latinesque"
Volume 2 has 14 jazz piano exercises and tricks of the trade, and quite a bit of it is Calypso jazz piano related material, including some Monty Alexander and Michel Camilo style grooves. Jazz piano education is through the ears, but books like this can help.
Volume 3 contains 12 jazz piano exercises and explorations by the acclaimed jazz piano educator, pianist, author, and recording artist Tim Richards.
Tim wrote the well known "Exploring Jazz Piano" and "Improvising Blues Piano" books and has several others to his name.
Volume 4 is by Jeff Brent, a jazz pianist, composer, teacher, and author of "Modalogy" and other acclaimed jazz theory and education books. In this book Jeff shares detailed analysis of transcriptions of live performances. He covers everything from the shape of the songs to the tricks and licks he uses in improvised lines to the ideas behind his lush chord voicings.
Most Recent Discussions
Articles
Piano for Adoption Scam
Aprender Jazz en Piano
BEWARE: FREE BABY GRAND PIANO SCAM
Oh Tannenbaum for Jazz Piano
Volume 5 of the "Jazz Piano Notebook Series" is Available!
LearnJazzPiano.com File Downloads News
more...
Top Sheetmusic Picks
Jazzy Christmas Arrangements
Cocktail Piano
Best Songs Ever, 6th Edition
Christmas Medley
Moana Songbook
Late Night Jazz Piano
Jazz piano education is cool.
Rock on. Follow your passion.
Sign In
privacy policy •
terms of service •
about
•
50,655 messages
63,069 accounts
57,173 logins
LearnJazzPiano.com Copyright © 1995-2024 by Scot Ranney • website software and design by scot's scripts
LearnJazzPiano.com is For Sale - Serious Inquiries Only
LearnJazzPiano.com Copyright © 1995-2024 by Scot Ranney • website software and design by scot's scripts
LearnJazzPiano.com is For Sale - Serious Inquiries Only