creative practice approach(cont.)
here's some more about this for all the people who've been posting stuff asking how to work on things-take a look at these other recent threads if you want the background behind it:
https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?intro_off=1&action=forum&sub=display_thread&id=37722&bid=37480&room_id=1
https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?intro_off=1&action=forum&sub=display_thread&id=38315&bid=38336&room_id=1
for players learning about practicing voicings cyclically and wanting to get beyond the usual sounds and getting back to the subject of using the cycle of fifths(and the counterclockwise,"backcycling" cycle of fourths) to practice voicings....i didn't mean to imply in earlier threads that doing away with using it completely in favor of coming up with your own root movement patterns is what i suggest in every individual situation..i've been working out of the "jazz hanon" book a lot lately as well as practicing from the mark harrison pop piano book;both of these use the cycle in their voicing examples......
using the cycle to work on voicings doesn't have to mean that you have to also think in terms of ii-v's
and the usual voicing choices you find....by using a rh concept which is based on a more contemporary sound/concept/chord type you can come up with some new sounds that might be more usable in actuality (and more stimulating to your ear/finger memory,consequently affecting your overall approach).....
for players learning about practicing voicings cyclically and wanting to get beyond the usual sounds,
here are some of the options you might try based on this type of thinking;using the principle involved you can come up with your own as well-
1.try a rh structure using the b3,11 and b7 on the min7
moving to one using b7,#9,and 11 on the dom 7;ex.-
(start just above middle c with the root an octave or two down)-
c/eb f bb-f/eb ab bb
this could be used for ii min11-v min11 or i min11-iv min11 as well,or using both as dom structures(i.e.c7-f7).......practicing this type of thing around the cycle gets you into thinking/hearing harmonically using the strongest movements/progresssions....
2.try moving from a min7 to a quartal structure on the dom-(use the same rh range as the previous)-
g/fbbd-c/ead
3.reverse the above,where you use a quartal structure on the ii moving to any number of options on the v,i.e.;-
d/f#be-g/fce,fad,ead,fbd,fbbd....
if you're into trying to practice voicings using the method i suggested in the previous threads(working with various root movement patterns and the resulting voice-leading situations)here's some more about that approach-
the distinction between "superimposed harmony" over a "modal root" and basic progressions(which could use the same kind of root movements)is what's important here-as a former single-note instrumentalist i would often deal with all the ways of implying secondary progresssions over a static/moving basic one,now at the keyboard i spend time "harmonizing" these type of root movements.
if you're interested in this,any of the sites where this kind of thing is dealt with for single-note instruments will give you infinite ideas of the kind of patterns you can use which you can then apply whatever voicing types you want to.....here's one that goes into the theory behind it-
https://danadler.com/misc/cycles.pdf
how i deal with this is to set up the root movement(lately i've been studying this as it applies to the diatonic scale and coming up with patterns which resolve to an original tonic using chromatic chords,but you can use whatever patterns you want)and then see what kinds of rh voicings you want to try on it and how to voicelead them,i.e-
https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?intro_off=1&action=forum&sub=display_thread&id=37722&bid=37480&room_id=1
https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?intro_off=1&action=forum&sub=display_thread&id=38315&bid=38336&room_id=1
for players learning about practicing voicings cyclically and wanting to get beyond the usual sounds and getting back to the subject of using the cycle of fifths(and the counterclockwise,"backcycling" cycle of fourths) to practice voicings....i didn't mean to imply in earlier threads that doing away with using it completely in favor of coming up with your own root movement patterns is what i suggest in every individual situation..i've been working out of the "jazz hanon" book a lot lately as well as practicing from the mark harrison pop piano book;both of these use the cycle in their voicing examples......
using the cycle to work on voicings doesn't have to mean that you have to also think in terms of ii-v's
and the usual voicing choices you find....by using a rh concept which is based on a more contemporary sound/concept/chord type you can come up with some new sounds that might be more usable in actuality (and more stimulating to your ear/finger memory,consequently affecting your overall approach).....
for players learning about practicing voicings cyclically and wanting to get beyond the usual sounds,
here are some of the options you might try based on this type of thinking;using the principle involved you can come up with your own as well-
1.try a rh structure using the b3,11 and b7 on the min7
moving to one using b7,#9,and 11 on the dom 7;ex.-
(start just above middle c with the root an octave or two down)-
c/eb f bb-f/eb ab bb
this could be used for ii min11-v min11 or i min11-iv min11 as well,or using both as dom structures(i.e.c7-f7).......practicing this type of thing around the cycle gets you into thinking/hearing harmonically using the strongest movements/progresssions....
2.try moving from a min7 to a quartal structure on the dom-(use the same rh range as the previous)-
g/fbbd-c/ead
3.reverse the above,where you use a quartal structure on the ii moving to any number of options on the v,i.e.;-
d/f#be-g/fce,fad,ead,fbd,fbbd....
if you're into trying to practice voicings using the method i suggested in the previous threads(working with various root movement patterns and the resulting voice-leading situations)here's some more about that approach-
the distinction between "superimposed harmony" over a "modal root" and basic progressions(which could use the same kind of root movements)is what's important here-as a former single-note instrumentalist i would often deal with all the ways of implying secondary progresssions over a static/moving basic one,now at the keyboard i spend time "harmonizing" these type of root movements.
if you're interested in this,any of the sites where this kind of thing is dealt with for single-note instruments will give you infinite ideas of the kind of patterns you can use which you can then apply whatever voicing types you want to.....here's one that goes into the theory behind it-
https://danadler.com/misc/cycles.pdf
how i deal with this is to set up the root movement(lately i've been studying this as it applies to the diatonic scale and coming up with patterns which resolve to an original tonic using chromatic chords,but you can use whatever patterns you want)and then see what kinds of rh voicings you want to try on it and how to voicelead them,i.e-
There are 3 comments, leave a comment.
(the second paragraph above should start like this)-
getting back to the subject of using the cycle of fifths...
sorry about the cut-and-paste error...more to come.......
getting back to the subject of using the cycle of fifths...
sorry about the cut-and-paste error...more to come.......
..........and then see what kinds of rh voicings you want to try on it and how to voicelead them,i.e you can work this out on a piece of paper -in the left column you just notate the descending roots(regardless of their actual direction in an intervallic sense)then in the right columns list whatever chord types/inversions you want to try over them and how to voicelead the resulting rh structures....
if you want to stay within a tonal system you have to be aware of what chord types you're using in these sequences and how they relate to the chord types formed within each mode/key....using the approach i've been describing,which is a lot like moving chords around over a fixed tonic,you can see how these types of movements work in of themselves and the various ways of harmonizing them.with this you're contrasting patterns which are strongly based in a tonal system with those that are "non-functional elaborations" of a given progression..............
when a pattern seems to indicate a given progression within a key,i try to strengthen it and decide whether it can work as a "quick exit and return" modulation within a diatonic framework;or to figure out how the resulting progression functions,either as a static progression over a fixed (dom)root or as an actual chord movement in of itself......
one thing that helps with all this is mentioned at length in the mark harrison book i've recommended-the idea of developing a sort of finger memory in both visual and nonvisual senses from working on different kinds of rh voicing "shapes" or templates;being able to both visualize a given inversion and play it without looking at the keys(many inversions "feel the same" given the layout of the keyboard) helps you understand/use this stuff..also doing this gets you starting to think of voiceleading in terms of both "note to note/chord to chord" as well as "inversion to inversion" or ways of playing "constant structure" voicings.........
a lot of usable root movement patterns for these type of exercises can be formed using the modes of pentatonic minor.....
another way of using the cycle that helps you hear/visualize the concept of tritones and how they're used in dom 7 substitution is this one-
(btw this diagram makes use of the notation system described above)
c bb e(near midc)
f a eb
b a d#
e g# d
bb ab d
eb g db
a g c#
d f# c
ab f# c
db f b
g f b
c e bb etc.
i wanted to mention something re- this threads' first example(c/ebfbb-f/ebabbb)...although i listed some of the chord types/harmonic function the voicings could be used for,the strongest implied harmonic area for this one is v-i in minor...
this gets into the idea of respecting/using the implied tonal gravity of a given inversion,i.e.in a modal sense the rh voicing eb f bb tends towards f as a resolution point with the flat 7 below it and the 11th above it..
if you've messed around with this kind of stuff at all,you've noticed how if you want to use a given voicing for a progression you have to make sure to "set up" the tonal gravity of the movement in a harmonic sense;for ex. by playing a strong basic dom-tonic progression first so the tonic is established and then using the voicing/root movement concept you're dealing with to return to the now-established tonic........
as regards the idea about how to organize a lot of different things you're practicing and the solution
i proposed earlier on(figuring out a focus and eliminating extraneous practicing)another thing to be aware of is how the ultimate effect of overpracticing things technically is a negative one in terms of your
overall musicality,doing more harm than good;to this end-
when working on things with these patterns of root movements/cycle ideas,i'd suggest letting your active ear be the guide in how much time you spend on each one rather than "playing them all in all keys"...
if after a while of working on a given voicing/progression,if you see you're developing your internalization of the concepts involved by starting to try to improvise over it in a given key,make note of that,stop there and go on to another voicing in a different key..then another day return to this same key/voicing and start from there.......
re-"order and chaos" in a creative approach...i like to keep my interest level high so i work on a whole bunch of different stuff.....i keep some looseleaf notebooks around and if i come up with something
i just jot it down,then using a review process i go back through it every week or so and see what kinds of things i was into,plus i have compositions in various stages of completion....
to organize everything,a couple of things that work for me are-
get some file folders and label them with the main things you're working on,then keep all the sheets relating to this(including tearing sheets out of the looseleaf)in each one...for ex.right now i've been going through all my notebooks and looking for all the non-tertial voicings i've found(i.e.taking a quartal voicing and inverting it gives you sus2 and sus structures)and using this system to organize them....
something that really helps you to get an overview of your processes is to set up a checklist of all the stuff you're into working on and see how much time you spend on each aspect over a month.........
if you want to stay within a tonal system you have to be aware of what chord types you're using in these sequences and how they relate to the chord types formed within each mode/key....using the approach i've been describing,which is a lot like moving chords around over a fixed tonic,you can see how these types of movements work in of themselves and the various ways of harmonizing them.with this you're contrasting patterns which are strongly based in a tonal system with those that are "non-functional elaborations" of a given progression..............
when a pattern seems to indicate a given progression within a key,i try to strengthen it and decide whether it can work as a "quick exit and return" modulation within a diatonic framework;or to figure out how the resulting progression functions,either as a static progression over a fixed (dom)root or as an actual chord movement in of itself......
one thing that helps with all this is mentioned at length in the mark harrison book i've recommended-the idea of developing a sort of finger memory in both visual and nonvisual senses from working on different kinds of rh voicing "shapes" or templates;being able to both visualize a given inversion and play it without looking at the keys(many inversions "feel the same" given the layout of the keyboard) helps you understand/use this stuff..also doing this gets you starting to think of voiceleading in terms of both "note to note/chord to chord" as well as "inversion to inversion" or ways of playing "constant structure" voicings.........
a lot of usable root movement patterns for these type of exercises can be formed using the modes of pentatonic minor.....
another way of using the cycle that helps you hear/visualize the concept of tritones and how they're used in dom 7 substitution is this one-
(btw this diagram makes use of the notation system described above)
c bb e(near midc)
f a eb
b a d#
e g# d
bb ab d
eb g db
a g c#
d f# c
ab f# c
db f b
g f b
c e bb etc.
i wanted to mention something re- this threads' first example(c/ebfbb-f/ebabbb)...although i listed some of the chord types/harmonic function the voicings could be used for,the strongest implied harmonic area for this one is v-i in minor...
this gets into the idea of respecting/using the implied tonal gravity of a given inversion,i.e.in a modal sense the rh voicing eb f bb tends towards f as a resolution point with the flat 7 below it and the 11th above it..
if you've messed around with this kind of stuff at all,you've noticed how if you want to use a given voicing for a progression you have to make sure to "set up" the tonal gravity of the movement in a harmonic sense;for ex. by playing a strong basic dom-tonic progression first so the tonic is established and then using the voicing/root movement concept you're dealing with to return to the now-established tonic........
as regards the idea about how to organize a lot of different things you're practicing and the solution
i proposed earlier on(figuring out a focus and eliminating extraneous practicing)another thing to be aware of is how the ultimate effect of overpracticing things technically is a negative one in terms of your
overall musicality,doing more harm than good;to this end-
when working on things with these patterns of root movements/cycle ideas,i'd suggest letting your active ear be the guide in how much time you spend on each one rather than "playing them all in all keys"...
if after a while of working on a given voicing/progression,if you see you're developing your internalization of the concepts involved by starting to try to improvise over it in a given key,make note of that,stop there and go on to another voicing in a different key..then another day return to this same key/voicing and start from there.......
re-"order and chaos" in a creative approach...i like to keep my interest level high so i work on a whole bunch of different stuff.....i keep some looseleaf notebooks around and if i come up with something
i just jot it down,then using a review process i go back through it every week or so and see what kinds of things i was into,plus i have compositions in various stages of completion....
to organize everything,a couple of things that work for me are-
get some file folders and label them with the main things you're working on,then keep all the sheets relating to this(including tearing sheets out of the looseleaf)in each one...for ex.right now i've been going through all my notebooks and looking for all the non-tertial voicings i've found(i.e.taking a quartal voicing and inverting it gives you sus2 and sus structures)and using this system to organize them....
something that really helps you to get an overview of your processes is to set up a checklist of all the stuff you're into working on and see how much time you spend on each aspect over a month.........
hi friend,i am intend to buy ed paolantonio,s book #my years with lennie tristano#.please who had read and learned this book give review or opinion about this book ? thsnk you !
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