Piano as a 2nd instrument
i play sax but decided to start learning piano as a 2nd instrument this year, so i started taking lessons from a classical teacher recommended by my jazz improv teacher.
however i've been wondering whether at some stage i should switch to a jazz piano teacher. i enjoy learning classical piano since it is different from what i normally do, but i'd also like to learn aspects of jazz piano, especially those that i can't do on sax, like comping or playing from lead sheets. improvisation would not be a priority for me since i already do that on sax.
i was wondering what you think about this approach. or do you think it's better to learn all aspects of jazz piano? i can only spend about 20 minutes a day on piano but even if progress is slow and i only reach an intermediate level if that, i think it would still help my sax playing. i'm also doing this for fun. ideally i could do both jazz and classical. i know most start to specialize in one or the other when they get to an advanced level, but honestly i don't think i will ever get that far. any thoughts? thanks.
however i've been wondering whether at some stage i should switch to a jazz piano teacher. i enjoy learning classical piano since it is different from what i normally do, but i'd also like to learn aspects of jazz piano, especially those that i can't do on sax, like comping or playing from lead sheets. improvisation would not be a priority for me since i already do that on sax.
i was wondering what you think about this approach. or do you think it's better to learn all aspects of jazz piano? i can only spend about 20 minutes a day on piano but even if progress is slow and i only reach an intermediate level if that, i think it would still help my sax playing. i'm also doing this for fun. ideally i could do both jazz and classical. i know most start to specialize in one or the other when they get to an advanced level, but honestly i don't think i will ever get that far. any thoughts? thanks.
There are 16 comments, leave a comment.
i would go with a jazz teacher that can also teach some basic technique stuff and reading. seeing that you only have 20 mins a day to practice and you want functional jazz pinao skills, why study classical?
i think of jazz piano as being two different things; jazz & piano. as a teacher who teaches both, i find that when teaching "jazz" only, i very rarely get to the business of teaching piano. so how you go about learning to play piano is a personal decision that you'll have to make, but i think your improv teacher gave you good advice. in studying with a classical teacher you will not only learn how to play the piano, you will also learn about the music that happened before jazz came around, which in my opinion is very important. to me music is kind of a cumulative thing - kind of like a snowball. it really helps to understand how it got started.
if you want to set your goal to be able to comp jazz piano, you will find that once you achieve that you will have new goals.
i once thought that if i could play piano like jelly roll that i would be happy, then when i could play like jelly i found that i wanted to play like fats, and when i could play like fats, i discovered that i wanted to play like tatum, after working through a bunch of his stuff, i went on a bird binge, and on and on.
at the moment i'm in django-land.
setting goals is a good thing, achieving them is better, and always having greater goals on the horizon is best.
i once thought that if i could play piano like jelly roll that i would be happy, then when i could play like jelly i found that i wanted to play like fats, and when i could play like fats, i discovered that i wanted to play like tatum, after working through a bunch of his stuff, i went on a bird binge, and on and on.
at the moment i'm in django-land.
setting goals is a good thing, achieving them is better, and always having greater goals on the horizon is best.
7 i always wanted to go there. do you speak djangese?
thanks, interesting thoughts. also, from a purely technical point of view, apart from rhythmic aspects are there any aspects of jazz piano technique that classical piano technique wouldn't cover?
banging your head on the keys
the only "technique" i can think of that classical instruction may not cover is "smashing" or "sliding" from black keys to white keys using the same finger(s) classically trained players generally try to avoid that sort of thing, (and so do i) but there are times when it is stylistically appropriate - blues, some herbie octave tremolos, etc
in the long run, technique is simply the facility to play the instrument effortlessly. i think there is an awful lot to learn from composers who wrote specifically for the piano. i know my own technique is challenged and my concepts of voicing are enlightened by studying the masters of yesteryear.
...just my thoughts...
~groove on
in the long run, technique is simply the facility to play the instrument effortlessly. i think there is an awful lot to learn from composers who wrote specifically for the piano. i know my own technique is challenged and my concepts of voicing are enlightened by studying the masters of yesteryear.
...just my thoughts...
~groove on
speaking of django and gipsy jazz,there is an interesting ´fenomenon`(just my opinion)going on in europe, in most big cities in recent decade there are meny groups ,duos and trios of balkan and east europe musicians mostly accordeon,guitar,clarinet,melodica,trupet,violin,sax musicians
busking on the streets,in terass restaurants ,trams and subways .
many years ago they used to play mostly balkan and traditional music of their country but in recent years many of them switched to jazz standards and bossa novas playing them with outstanding virtuosity,innovation and originality.in a way these musicians sometimes play ten hour long gigs everyday.its a shame recording industry is ignoring them ,maybe there are musical talents that will never get recorded
busking on the streets,in terass restaurants ,trams and subways .
many years ago they used to play mostly balkan and traditional music of their country but in recent years many of them switched to jazz standards and bossa novas playing them with outstanding virtuosity,innovation and originality.in a way these musicians sometimes play ten hour long gigs everyday.its a shame recording industry is ignoring them ,maybe there are musical talents that will never get recorded
ado, i agree. harri stojka does a good job on guitar. check out my review of his album 'a tribute to swing' at www.jazzreview.com.
back to the original topic, when i started learning piano about 12-13 years ago, as an adult and a drummer, i learned piano from a classical teacher for about a year, then moved onto jazz teachers. the classical teacher taught me scales, general technique and a few pieces, before i decided it was time to move on.
in retrospect, i think that this was a good approach. just see what is working...
in retrospect, i think that this was a good approach. just see what is working...
my classical teacher is pretty much doing the same thing with me as well. i'm about to start lessons again after the summer break so i think i'll just carry on for another year and see how i feel after that. just take it one year at a time. right now i'm not too fussy about whether the teacher is classical or jazz, as long as she is a good teacher and i'm learning. it's all good.
i would think that a lot of jazz piano instructors were trained in classical piano and could offer enough technical instruction to keep you busy. comping is something that very few classical instructors could help you with and that is a huge part of jazz piano (particularly if you are focusing on your sax for improv). i guess it would depend on what is available for instruction in your area.
quick correction on django. (i would/could rarely if ever correct jeff brent who is an excellent instructor and contributor to this site but i recently did a little studying of django reinhardt) django did finally tour in america after the war in 1946.
quick correction on django. (i would/could rarely if ever correct jeff brent who is an excellent instructor and contributor to this site but i recently did a little studying of django reinhardt) django did finally tour in america after the war in 1946.
2 things:
my brother has been studying with a jazz teacher (a late 20-something ccm grad) for over a year now and has continued to progress both technically and in his jazz playing. mind you, he already had a solid foundation, but it's not as if his technical development halted once he started with a jazz teacher.
the last two classical teachers i've had have been informative in the area of learning how to play classical literature properly (articulation, interpretation, ect.) and basic physical technique pointers (i.e. loosen, but don't drop the wrists), but for the most part i feel that a competent jazz teacher could teach you the same thing and have you do it while you progress on your jazz playing.
my brother has been studying with a jazz teacher (a late 20-something ccm grad) for over a year now and has continued to progress both technically and in his jazz playing. mind you, he already had a solid foundation, but it's not as if his technical development halted once he started with a jazz teacher.
the last two classical teachers i've had have been informative in the area of learning how to play classical literature properly (articulation, interpretation, ect.) and basic physical technique pointers (i.e. loosen, but don't drop the wrists), but for the most part i feel that a competent jazz teacher could teach you the same thing and have you do it while you progress on your jazz playing.
i have to agree with flapjack and ziggysane. why study classical if you want to play jazz? yes your goals may change, but a good teacher (not matter what style you're doing) well give you a good foundation.
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