Pentatonic System
so i have been fooling around with this pentatonic system for
improvising over ii v i's. it goes like this. use the pentatonic built on the fifth of the ii chord for the ii chord and then choose chromatically from there... so use the pentatonic scale built on the tone a half step higher for the v chord and the pentatonic built on the tone a half step higher for the i chord. so in the key of c you end up using the a minor pentatonic on d - 7 ....the bb minor pentatonic on the g7 chord and the b minor pentatonic on the cmajor7 chord. simple enough right? so i kind of like the system.
i find it simple. easy to practice and put into use and i like the sound of it.
ok so here is my problem... i am trying to find a similar system
for minor ii v i's and i am not coming up with it. help.
do any of you have any ideas for a similar system that will work for minor ii v i's? mucho gracia
mike.
improvising over ii v i's. it goes like this. use the pentatonic built on the fifth of the ii chord for the ii chord and then choose chromatically from there... so use the pentatonic scale built on the tone a half step higher for the v chord and the pentatonic built on the tone a half step higher for the i chord. so in the key of c you end up using the a minor pentatonic on d - 7 ....the bb minor pentatonic on the g7 chord and the b minor pentatonic on the cmajor7 chord. simple enough right? so i kind of like the system.
i find it simple. easy to practice and put into use and i like the sound of it.
ok so here is my problem... i am trying to find a similar system
for minor ii v i's and i am not coming up with it. help.
do any of you have any ideas for a similar system that will work for minor ii v i's? mucho gracia
mike.
There are 22 comments, leave a comment.
here's one idea that i use (in cm):
over the dØ and the g7alt i like the d half-diminished pentatonic scale
d f g ab c
then over the tonic c minor the a half-diminished (cm69) scale.
this is probably not what you're looking for, but the minors are a different animal from the majors.
over the dØ and the g7alt i like the d half-diminished pentatonic scale
d f g ab c
then over the tonic c minor the a half-diminished (cm69) scale.
this is probably not what you're looking for, but the minors are a different animal from the majors.
hi mike- i like that system especailly for the v chord- seems like an easy way to get the dimished sound. perhaps you know of some books on the topic. i'm trying to remember a series of jazz improv books/cd play along that a sax player wrote- i'm pretty sure he's a breklee grad. he also plays piano really well. anyways he has a book on pentatonics- maybe it covers the kind of thing your talking about.
i just found the book- it's by jerry bergonzi and is called "inside jazz improvisation" vol 2 pentatonics
anyone familiar with this seris? any thoughts?
thanks!
anyone familiar with this seris? any thoughts?
thanks!
these pent scales move up chromaticly over a minor ii v i
dmi7b5 play gmi7 pent
g7alt play ab-6 pent
cmi6 play a-7b5 pent (same notes as cmi6 pent)
dmi7b5 play gmi7 pent
g7alt play ab-6 pent
cmi6 play a-7b5 pent (same notes as cmi6 pent)
jeff!
your pentatonic is funny! but i look at it like a dm7sus(b5) arpegio, i like it anyway.
well my idea playing pentatonics over minor 251 cadence in te key of c minor would be as follow:
dm7b5: try ab maj.pen.
g7alt: try db maj.pen.
cm: try c min.pen.
i discussed pentatnics in my book "jazzology" see last chapter: approaching improvisation.
your pentatonic is funny! but i look at it like a dm7sus(b5) arpegio, i like it anyway.
well my idea playing pentatonics over minor 251 cadence in te key of c minor would be as follow:
dm7b5: try ab maj.pen.
g7alt: try db maj.pen.
cm: try c min.pen.
i discussed pentatnics in my book "jazzology" see last chapter: approaching improvisation.
i thought mike was looking for a chromatic sequence of pentatonics for a minor ii v i
these pent scales move up chromaticly over a minor ii v i
dmi7b5 play gmi7 pent
g7alt play ab-6 pent
cmi6 play a-7b5 pent (same notes as cmi6 pent)
these pent scales move up chromaticly over a minor ii v i
dmi7b5 play gmi7 pent
g7alt play ab-6 pent
cmi6 play a-7b5 pent (same notes as cmi6 pent)
yes jazz you solved it. thenks a mica.
mike
mike
or you can try this re-harmonisation while you still can play pentatonics like:
d7#9 (instead of dm7b5): eb kumoi
g13 (instead of g7b9): d kumoi
cm: c kumoi
c kumoi = c d eb g a (root 2nd b3rd 5th 6th / 1 2 b3 5 6)
d7#9 (instead of dm7b5): eb kumoi
g13 (instead of g7b9): d kumoi
cm: c kumoi
c kumoi = c d eb g a (root 2nd b3rd 5th 6th / 1 2 b3 5 6)
"kumoi" is an esoteric japanese term.
c kumoi = cmi6 pent
c kumoi = cmi6 pent
whilst being very grateful for discussions such as these, it would be very nice to actually hear what these things should sound like.
i was excited at the thought of these chromatic pentatonics over ii v i's, but then i got home and tried it out and it sounded rubbish the way i play it.
i am not complaining at all at the wealth of brilliant and free knowledge here, but it is so quick and easy to put a short video on youtube and it would make a huge difference to the less experienced players here.
i was excited at the thought of these chromatic pentatonics over ii v i's, but then i got home and tried it out and it sounded rubbish the way i play it.
i am not complaining at all at the wealth of brilliant and free knowledge here, but it is so quick and easy to put a short video on youtube and it would make a huge difference to the less experienced players here.
the same thing happened to me! anyone care to share some musical examples?
i know how to play pretty well. but the knowledge it takes to put a video on utube is way beyond my ability. maybe you could explain to me how it is done gordon if it is so quick and easy.
hi mike,
i realise now i shouldn't have said it was quick and easy - like anything it's only easy once you know how.
if you make a google search on "how to upload to youtube" there is lots of info on this.
the step by step guide at https://www.wikihow.com/upload-a-video-on-youtube seemed pretty good.
do let me know if you have any questions on this.
i realise now i shouldn't have said it was quick and easy - like anything it's only easy once you know how.
if you make a google search on "how to upload to youtube" there is lots of info on this.
the step by step guide at https://www.wikihow.com/upload-a-video-on-youtube seemed pretty good.
do let me know if you have any questions on this.
looks pretty complicated to me.
i expect this will get me flamed, but...
i have a problem with 'scales' that have holes in them. maybe it betrays my bebop sympathies but to be usable for linear improvisation (and chord voicing for that matter), i think allowable notes should be no more than a whole tone apart. scales like the pentatonic and the various oriental modes, and even the ascending harmonic minor, contain jumps that can really strangle melodic creativity. there are 95 different scales made up of nothing but semitone and whole tones (i know, i counted them). somewhere amongst them is what you need for every purpose.
but then, i'm not much of a fan of chord-scale systems, so what do i know?
sid
i have a problem with 'scales' that have holes in them. maybe it betrays my bebop sympathies but to be usable for linear improvisation (and chord voicing for that matter), i think allowable notes should be no more than a whole tone apart. scales like the pentatonic and the various oriental modes, and even the ascending harmonic minor, contain jumps that can really strangle melodic creativity. there are 95 different scales made up of nothing but semitone and whole tones (i know, i counted them). somewhere amongst them is what you need for every purpose.
but then, i'm not much of a fan of chord-scale systems, so what do i know?
sid
oh, come on man. leave some holes and spaces. it gives the ear a rest.
lol, well i think mcoy tyner for one would probally differ with you about the whole in scale theory. but in general i do tend to stay away from pentatonics except for when playing the blues and when doing my exceptionally lame ass mcoy tyner immitations.
for people reading this around the world who want a better understanding of the underlying fundamentals involved,albetan has some files which are highly recommended..
https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?action=files&sub=file_details&id=1143687717
https://www.learnjazzpiano.com/citadel/scotcit.mvc?action=files&sub=file_details&id=1143687717
sid wrote:
<i>"i have a problem with 'scales' that have holes in them. maybe it betrays my bebop sympathies but to be usable for linear improvisation (and chord voicing for that matter), i think allowable notes should be no more than a whole tone apart. scales like the pentatonic and the various oriental modes, and even the ascending harmonic minor, contain jumps that can really strangle melodic creativity. there are 95 different scales made up of nothing but semitone and whole tones (i know, i counted them). somewhere amongst them is what you need for every purpose."</i>
a great deal of the charm lies in leaving a note or two out of a 7-note diatonic (and it doesn't have to be the "avoid" note either).
take a look at this hindu scale that i often play over a g mixolydian section:
b c d f g
if you put in any other notes, it completely changes/ruins the entire mood.
also remember that bird was fond of playing the extended chord as if it were a scale.
example:
cmaj13#11 over a c major quality chord.
although the straight vanilla arpeggio goes
c e g b d' f#' a'
it can be melodiously manipulated to great effect by "playing it as you would a scale", eg. b d' a' f#' g d' b e
in common instances like these, it is the holes that make the cheese ...
<i>"i have a problem with 'scales' that have holes in them. maybe it betrays my bebop sympathies but to be usable for linear improvisation (and chord voicing for that matter), i think allowable notes should be no more than a whole tone apart. scales like the pentatonic and the various oriental modes, and even the ascending harmonic minor, contain jumps that can really strangle melodic creativity. there are 95 different scales made up of nothing but semitone and whole tones (i know, i counted them). somewhere amongst them is what you need for every purpose."</i>
a great deal of the charm lies in leaving a note or two out of a 7-note diatonic (and it doesn't have to be the "avoid" note either).
take a look at this hindu scale that i often play over a g mixolydian section:
b c d f g
if you put in any other notes, it completely changes/ruins the entire mood.
also remember that bird was fond of playing the extended chord as if it were a scale.
example:
cmaj13#11 over a c major quality chord.
although the straight vanilla arpeggio goes
c e g b d' f#' a'
it can be melodiously manipulated to great effect by "playing it as you would a scale", eg. b d' a' f#' g d' b e
in common instances like these, it is the holes that make the cheese ...
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