Hanon in other keys
i am wondering what you all would think about this advice concerning how to do hanon excercises:
"once you learn the exercise in the key of c, begin practicing in the other keys, starting with the white keys (d, e, f, g, a, and b) and then going to the black keys (d-flat, e-flat, f-sharp, a-flat, and b-flat). do not change the fingering. avoid moving in and out of the black keys, but stay inside the keyboard somewhat so that your thumb and fifth fingers are close to the black keys before they need to play. this is essential for an advanced piano technique."
sounds like good advice, but my concern would be that practice creates habits, and once i start putting thumbs and fifth fingers on the black keys, it will become a habit that overrides the normal fingering.
ed
p.s. the quote above is from this webpage: https://www.cs.bsu.edu/homepages/kevinp/kevin_exercise.html
"once you learn the exercise in the key of c, begin practicing in the other keys, starting with the white keys (d, e, f, g, a, and b) and then going to the black keys (d-flat, e-flat, f-sharp, a-flat, and b-flat). do not change the fingering. avoid moving in and out of the black keys, but stay inside the keyboard somewhat so that your thumb and fifth fingers are close to the black keys before they need to play. this is essential for an advanced piano technique."
sounds like good advice, but my concern would be that practice creates habits, and once i start putting thumbs and fifth fingers on the black keys, it will become a habit that overrides the normal fingering.
ed
p.s. the quote above is from this webpage: https://www.cs.bsu.edu/homepages/kevinp/kevin_exercise.html
There are no comments, leave a comment.
it would be hard to get the hanon excercises on the black keys, ecspecially with the finger crossings.
i'll look into it.
i'll look into it.
cryan, isn't that just a basic blues tune? should be pretty simple to do if you have band in a box.
great movie...in my top 5 favorites right behind this is spinal tap. for those that have never seen it, it's about the meteoric rise and quick demise of a one-hit wonder garage band during the height of the beatle invasion whose drummer is basically a jazzer at heart.
great movie...in my top 5 favorites right behind this is spinal tap. for those that have never seen it, it's about the meteoric rise and quick demise of a one-hit wonder garage band during the height of the beatle invasion whose drummer is basically a jazzer at heart.
the first (and most famous) one is quite easily played in all keys with the same fingering combo...i don't think it creates any bad habits - we all know rules are made to be broken...there are times when you just have to use some awkward fingerings, you might as well be prepared
...and don't forget to play them in contrary motion, separatelye rhythmicizing each hand, playing different excercises in left and right, in all keys, at tempos from 10 to 220
just kidding...
just kidding...
i agree whack, the first one is pie. the other 31 standard ones(not the appregios, tremolos, etc.) would be quite difficult.
i was closed to the idea at first, but i guess it would also be a big benefit to be able to trill with the 4th and 5th fingers in all keys, as well other positives.
i was closed to the idea at first, but i guess it would also be a big benefit to be able to trill with the 4th and 5th fingers in all keys, as well other positives.
spend your time learning real tunes in all 12 keys, rather than hanon.
i use hanon purely for exercise and have never done all keys.
however, i don't see any problem with playing part i in all 12 keys with the same fingerings. i don't remember any finger-crossings in the part 1.
in real life, you will often be putting thumbs on black keys and doing lots of strange things -- whatever works.
i use hanon purely for exercise and have never done all keys.
however, i don't see any problem with playing part i in all 12 keys with the same fingerings. i don't remember any finger-crossings in the part 1.
in real life, you will often be putting thumbs on black keys and doing lots of strange things -- whatever works.
i've mentioned this before, but the great claude bolling suggests playing all scales with the c scale fingering (as an exercise) for the exact reason cynbad gives above- when you're improvising you often are not playing lines that fall into comfortable finger placements, so you should have some experience playing things with "good" and "bad" fingerings.
don't worry about developing bad habits- quite the opposite, you'll increase the flexibility of what you can play and be more confident grabbing intervals anywhere on the piano.
don't worry about developing bad habits- quite the opposite, you'll increase the flexibility of what you can play and be more confident grabbing intervals anywhere on the piano.
If I'm not back in 24 hours, call the president.
Scot is available for skype jazz piano lessons (and google hangouts, phone call, etc...)
Use the contact link at the top of the page.
Scot is available for skype jazz piano lessons (and google hangouts, phone call, etc...)
Use the contact link at the top of the page.
by Scot Ranney on 05/03/2005, 14:38
there's a great exercise book by oscar beringer. his studies all go through every key right from the beginnning to end.
herbie hancock used it i believe. playing in say e-flat min as often as cmaj will train the fingers to play evenly in a wide variety of awkward hand positions, to play up amongst and between the black keys and not just the simple up-and-down movements required for cmaj.
far too often, finger exercises are derided for being 'boring' or 'not real music'. but mostly only by people who practise them unmusically and therefore don't benefit. if practised with the same attention to detail as any other piece they can be very rewarding. they can work if used properly.
jb
herbie hancock used it i believe. playing in say e-flat min as often as cmaj will train the fingers to play evenly in a wide variety of awkward hand positions, to play up amongst and between the black keys and not just the simple up-and-down movements required for cmaj.
far too often, finger exercises are derided for being 'boring' or 'not real music'. but mostly only by people who practise them unmusically and therefore don't benefit. if practised with the same attention to detail as any other piece they can be very rewarding. they can work if used properly.
jb
<<garyinthailand -- 05/03/2005, 10:29:22 -- #13489
...and don't forget to play them in contrary motion, separatelye rhythmicizing each hand, playing different excercises in left and right, in all keys, at tempos from 10 to 220>>
uh, yeah, i do all that too, like you said, and with my blindfold on, and the thumbweights on both thumbs, and the rubber bands holding fingers 4 and 5 together. it wouldn't be so bad if my teacher would let me practice sitting down, instead of standing, but no.......
...and don't forget to play them in contrary motion, separatelye rhythmicizing each hand, playing different excercises in left and right, in all keys, at tempos from 10 to 220>>
uh, yeah, i do all that too, like you said, and with my blindfold on, and the thumbweights on both thumbs, and the rubber bands holding fingers 4 and 5 together. it wouldn't be so bad if my teacher would let me practice sitting down, instead of standing, but no.......
with all of this discussion of hanon, i'm a little curious about what people think of "easy" hanon (the first 40 exercises or so) versus "evil" hanon (the last 20 exercises).
having working on hanon for awhile, i have to say that i think i've gotten much more mileage out of some of the later exercises (e.g., scales in parallel thirds, 4-fold trills, etc.). i don't think those exercises are directly related to an actual jazz lick (in terms of stuff i might use in a solo), but my playing just started to feel a lot better overall after having worked on some of those later execises. at this point, i don't even bother with the first part of hanon. instead i might do some of the later hanon exercises and then move on to taking a variety of bebop licks through all of the keys.
having working on hanon for awhile, i have to say that i think i've gotten much more mileage out of some of the later exercises (e.g., scales in parallel thirds, 4-fold trills, etc.). i don't think those exercises are directly related to an actual jazz lick (in terms of stuff i might use in a solo), but my playing just started to feel a lot better overall after having worked on some of those later execises. at this point, i don't even bother with the first part of hanon. instead i might do some of the later hanon exercises and then move on to taking a variety of bebop licks through all of the keys.
hanon does just what it says in the begining of the book. it strengthens and creates perfect eveness in the 4th and 5th fingers as the 1st 2nd and 3rd have. i have been playing hanon for almost 6 years now...
everyday before i practice its the first thing i do. before i finished the book i used to play it for hours upon hours. i think i set the record for practicing hanon (about 4 hours nonstop no bs) the book says to practice every exercise preceeding the one you are currently working on 4 times before going to the next one. i used to learn new exercise every week. if you take that same track then its going to take you a little over a year just to complete the book. the book says to play through it takes 1 hour(lesson 1-60) do the math its about a min for each exercise. then multiply that by 4 because your are playing each exercise 4 times before your proceed to the next it ends up being 4 hours.
when i play it now i just do 10 at a time 2 times each to warm up.
everyday before i practice its the first thing i do. before i finished the book i used to play it for hours upon hours. i think i set the record for practicing hanon (about 4 hours nonstop no bs) the book says to practice every exercise preceeding the one you are currently working on 4 times before going to the next one. i used to learn new exercise every week. if you take that same track then its going to take you a little over a year just to complete the book. the book says to play through it takes 1 hour(lesson 1-60) do the math its about a min for each exercise. then multiply that by 4 because your are playing each exercise 4 times before your proceed to the next it ends up being 4 hours.
when i play it now i just do 10 at a time 2 times each to warm up.
i have done all the hanon exercises in all 12 keys. i had no problem with it. it is old thinking to think you should avoid using your thumb on the black keys. it is wrong really. i believe i can play more things well with good tone because i use my thumb naturally on the black keys. going thru hanon in all twelve keys helped make this usage natural for me. however i rarely require hanon of my students. normally i can develop my students technique to my liking with a steady diet of bach. if bach does not work to my liking for unkown reasons then i assign hanon. and if i assign hanon i without exeception assign all exersises in all 12 keys and have done so successfully with many students.
also i find it useful to apply these exercises to rhythmic ideas. so, going back to beringer's daily studies for a moment, there's one early one that goes something like this:
using the fingering
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
c d e d e f e f g f g a
in cmajor and then in all the other keys (major and minor)
once you've got that clear, smooth and even tone, try playing it over the rhythm of a few bebop tunes eg. scrapple, ornithology, oleo, confirmation. make sure the rhythm is really 'in the pocket' don't think about the notes. it will feel a bit strange at first, but i've found it quite useful because it forces you to play rhythm.
also try soloing over the rhythm of these tunes...
jb
using the fingering
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
c d e d e f e f g f g a
in cmajor and then in all the other keys (major and minor)
once you've got that clear, smooth and even tone, try playing it over the rhythm of a few bebop tunes eg. scrapple, ornithology, oleo, confirmation. make sure the rhythm is really 'in the pocket' don't think about the notes. it will feel a bit strange at first, but i've found it quite useful because it forces you to play rhythm.
also try soloing over the rhythm of these tunes...
jb
Please sign in to post.
Jazz Piano Notebook Series
Volume 1 of this educational jazz piano book contains 15 jazz piano exercises, tricks, and other interesting jazz piano techniques, voicings, grooves, and ideas Scot Ranney enjoys playing.
"Latinesque"
Volume 2 has 14 jazz piano exercises and tricks of the trade, and quite a bit of it is Calypso jazz piano related material, including some Monty Alexander and Michel Camilo style grooves. Jazz piano education is through the ears, but books like this can help.
Volume 3 contains 12 jazz piano exercises and explorations by the acclaimed jazz piano educator, pianist, author, and recording artist Tim Richards.
Tim wrote the well known "Exploring Jazz Piano" and "Improvising Blues Piano" books and has several others to his name.
Volume 4 is by Jeff Brent, a jazz pianist, composer, teacher, and author of "Modalogy" and other acclaimed jazz theory and education books. In this book Jeff shares detailed analysis of transcriptions of live performances. He covers everything from the shape of the songs to the tricks and licks he uses in improvised lines to the ideas behind his lush chord voicings.
Most Recent Discussions
Articles
Piano for Adoption Scam
Aprender Jazz en Piano
BEWARE: FREE BABY GRAND PIANO SCAM
Oh Tannenbaum for Jazz Piano
Volume 5 of the "Jazz Piano Notebook Series" is Available!
LearnJazzPiano.com File Downloads News
more...
Top Sheetmusic Picks
Jazzy Christmas Arrangements
Cocktail Piano
Best Songs Ever, 6th Edition
Christmas Medley
Moana Songbook
Late Night Jazz Piano
Jazz piano education is cool.
Rock on. Follow your passion.
Sign In
privacy policy •
terms of service •
about
•
50,655 messages
63,069 accounts
57,173 logins
LearnJazzPiano.com Copyright © 1995-2024 by Scot Ranney • website software and design by scot's scripts
LearnJazzPiano.com is For Sale - Serious Inquiries Only
LearnJazzPiano.com Copyright © 1995-2024 by Scot Ranney • website software and design by scot's scripts
LearnJazzPiano.com is For Sale - Serious Inquiries Only