How many standards do you know?
just curious i esp want to know what the pro pianist here would say about this.
also when you learn one do you normally learn the medlody or just the chords. i learn both inside out, but i've noted that not all do so.
some people are so anxious to solo that they just learn the chords and never really internalize the song. i find that if i learn the lyrics its really helps me to internalize songs quicker.
any thoughts?
jv'
also when you learn one do you normally learn the medlody or just the chords. i learn both inside out, but i've noted that not all do so.
some people are so anxious to solo that they just learn the chords and never really internalize the song. i find that if i learn the lyrics its really helps me to internalize songs quicker.
any thoughts?
jv'
There are no comments, leave a comment.
good question...the term "standard" can be pretty broad, depending on your age- hehe...
i probably know thousands of em because i've been playing for a long time. i started playing gigs with my dad when i was a kid, and some of the guys were a lot older than my dad - ha! so to them tunes like "harbor lights" were standards, and misty was a new tune:)
i learned to play what's in my head, so if i can sing the melody, i can play it. same with chords although you have to keep your ears peeled because there can be many ways to harmonize a tune...i sometimes forget what the "standard changes" are/were because i may have used "different" ones over the years.
it's good practice a standard that you know in all keys, without any pre-thinking - just play and try to grab the right stuff - if and when you screw it up, go fishing for the right stuff and try it again:) over time you'll get better and playing what's in your head and remembering tunes will be a snap
i probably know thousands of em because i've been playing for a long time. i started playing gigs with my dad when i was a kid, and some of the guys were a lot older than my dad - ha! so to them tunes like "harbor lights" were standards, and misty was a new tune:)
i learned to play what's in my head, so if i can sing the melody, i can play it. same with chords although you have to keep your ears peeled because there can be many ways to harmonize a tune...i sometimes forget what the "standard changes" are/were because i may have used "different" ones over the years.
it's good practice a standard that you know in all keys, without any pre-thinking - just play and try to grab the right stuff - if and when you screw it up, go fishing for the right stuff and try it again:) over time you'll get better and playing what's in your head and remembering tunes will be a snap
damn typos!!! too much coffee!
i know a lot of tunes, but i couldn't put a number on them. most of them i know the melody and chords, some tunes i know the chords but have to work out the melody, some tunes i know the lyrics, some tunes i know so well i can put them in any key without any problem, others i can barely put into another key.
i know this doesn't answer your question at all, but i think what i'm getting at is that at a certain point, i stopped counting my tunes. i don't even keep my songlist up to date any longer. at first i did and i went over all the tunes on it every week or so.
eventually i figured out that most tunes are just like all the rest with a few different chords and melodies... at least for standards. now heavy jazz tunes, stuff by chick and billy childs and people that like that, i have to work those out if i want to play them. i always work 'em out as if i'm going to perform solo, then when i get in with the trio, it's a lot easier because the rest of the band takes some of the weight off my shoulders.
i know this doesn't answer your question at all, but i think what i'm getting at is that at a certain point, i stopped counting my tunes. i don't even keep my songlist up to date any longer. at first i did and i went over all the tunes on it every week or so.
eventually i figured out that most tunes are just like all the rest with a few different chords and melodies... at least for standards. now heavy jazz tunes, stuff by chick and billy childs and people that like that, i have to work those out if i want to play them. i always work 'em out as if i'm going to perform solo, then when i get in with the trio, it's a lot easier because the rest of the band takes some of the weight off my shoulders.
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Use the contact link at the top of the page.
by Scot Ranney on 05/30/2005, 17:20
i spend most of my time trying to forget them nowadays. i used to know hundreds and actually worked at it so when miseralbe old bastards requested them i could play them from memory in a second with out opening up a book. also so i could get gigs with the miseralbe old timers who think their way of playing and their tunes in their keys is the only way music can be done with out god striking you dead. i've stoped playin em, mostly i just play my own music and i dont care if i ever play with an old timer again (course most of em are dead now) and i aint in hell yet. my reccomendation...
learn some standards if ya feel like it. learn em how you like,
play em when you want. whether you play em or not there still aint no paid vacations on this gig man.
learn some standards if ya feel like it. learn em how you like,
play em when you want. whether you play em or not there still aint no paid vacations on this gig man.
early in my jazz education i went around asking which tunes were "must haves".
i got as many answers as there were jazz musicians.
i soon had a book full of fake book photocopies of all the "essential" tunes in the jazz repertoire.
never having heard most of the tunes, i made up my own versions (which, even though i didn't know it at the time - was what i was supposed to be doing). some fast, some slow. enough to get me through a 9-2 solo gig.
when playing with other musicians, they mostly worked pretty well (some better than others).
going from town to town though (i was living in europe at the time), i noticed that each place had its own set of "jazz standards" and their own particular spin on them. evolution via proximity, i imagine.
when i heard a cool arrangement of a tune that i liked, i'd try during my little practices to emulate that arrangement i'd heard the night before and eventually i managed to gather together a host of tunes that i really liked and that i played pretty well.
* * * * * * *
one thing i noticed about a lot of the local piano players back then, was that after a few songs everything they played started to sound the same.
that is to say, they were using the same devices over every single tune. as a consequence no matter how much the guy might have blown me away at first listen, after awhile it came down to "oh, that old trick again".
so it didn't matter if they were playing "green dolphin street" or "all the things you are" or "my funny valentine" it all sounded like the same song.
this is a problem for most mediocre players. they find a system that works, and then they beat it to death.
this probably happens for several reasons:
1. lack of imagination
that's all the guy knows how to do, and can't think of any other approach to the tune.
2. lack of direction
this is probably related to the point above. without proper schooling and guidance in other techniques and styles, a player is content to sit on what he knows well and unlikely to be familiar enough with other approaches to "break out of the mold".
3. lack of time
i think it's a bill evans' quote "better to spend 30 hours on one tune, than to spend one hour apiece on 30 tunes." so often we have to put together a large repertoire quickly in order to fulfil the basic requirements of an upcoming gig. consequently, we just don't have the time to fully explore the possible pathways of a tune to turn it into something personal and meaningful.
* * * * * * *
another point:
the vast majority of tunes that i have learned have been because someone was paying me to know them. although i have been interested in music enough to learn many tunes that just flat out turn me on, mostly it's because i've generally worked as a sideman and been handed a set list and/or a pile of charts.
this is diametrically opposed to many of my colleagues who own all the real books and have diligently set about learning every tune in every single one of those books on the off-chance that at some time in the future one of those tunes will get sprung on them at a jam or rehearsal or out of the blue on a gig.
that to me is the "30 tunes in 30 hours formula" and it just doesn't work. i'd rather have somebody throw a chart in front of me on the spot at a gig (but i'm a pretty good bullshitter) than jerk off in the world of speculation preparing for a day that in all probability will never come.
* * * * * * *
in parting:
it doesn't matter how many tunes you know, someone will always spring something on you that you've never even heard of, much less heard.
it's not about quantity, it's about quality.
as long as you have a deep understanding of the underlying principles (and the chops), you won't have to sweat it.
i got as many answers as there were jazz musicians.
i soon had a book full of fake book photocopies of all the "essential" tunes in the jazz repertoire.
never having heard most of the tunes, i made up my own versions (which, even though i didn't know it at the time - was what i was supposed to be doing). some fast, some slow. enough to get me through a 9-2 solo gig.
when playing with other musicians, they mostly worked pretty well (some better than others).
going from town to town though (i was living in europe at the time), i noticed that each place had its own set of "jazz standards" and their own particular spin on them. evolution via proximity, i imagine.
when i heard a cool arrangement of a tune that i liked, i'd try during my little practices to emulate that arrangement i'd heard the night before and eventually i managed to gather together a host of tunes that i really liked and that i played pretty well.
* * * * * * *
one thing i noticed about a lot of the local piano players back then, was that after a few songs everything they played started to sound the same.
that is to say, they were using the same devices over every single tune. as a consequence no matter how much the guy might have blown me away at first listen, after awhile it came down to "oh, that old trick again".
so it didn't matter if they were playing "green dolphin street" or "all the things you are" or "my funny valentine" it all sounded like the same song.
this is a problem for most mediocre players. they find a system that works, and then they beat it to death.
this probably happens for several reasons:
1. lack of imagination
that's all the guy knows how to do, and can't think of any other approach to the tune.
2. lack of direction
this is probably related to the point above. without proper schooling and guidance in other techniques and styles, a player is content to sit on what he knows well and unlikely to be familiar enough with other approaches to "break out of the mold".
3. lack of time
i think it's a bill evans' quote "better to spend 30 hours on one tune, than to spend one hour apiece on 30 tunes." so often we have to put together a large repertoire quickly in order to fulfil the basic requirements of an upcoming gig. consequently, we just don't have the time to fully explore the possible pathways of a tune to turn it into something personal and meaningful.
* * * * * * *
another point:
the vast majority of tunes that i have learned have been because someone was paying me to know them. although i have been interested in music enough to learn many tunes that just flat out turn me on, mostly it's because i've generally worked as a sideman and been handed a set list and/or a pile of charts.
this is diametrically opposed to many of my colleagues who own all the real books and have diligently set about learning every tune in every single one of those books on the off-chance that at some time in the future one of those tunes will get sprung on them at a jam or rehearsal or out of the blue on a gig.
that to me is the "30 tunes in 30 hours formula" and it just doesn't work. i'd rather have somebody throw a chart in front of me on the spot at a gig (but i'm a pretty good bullshitter) than jerk off in the world of speculation preparing for a day that in all probability will never come.
* * * * * * *
in parting:
it doesn't matter how many tunes you know, someone will always spring something on you that you've never even heard of, much less heard.
it's not about quantity, it's about quality.
as long as you have a deep understanding of the underlying principles (and the chops), you won't have to sweat it.
this is sort of unrelated, but ive been trying to learn some bluegrass standards on the keys... although these songs are really simple (basic chords and mostly major scale running melodies) its a lot harder to get the style right. trying to comp with offbeat guitar shuffle is hard to pull of on the piano (for me at least) once i get the style though i can reharmonize the changes and make em a bit more jazzy... ive heard some bluejazz (my new word) by mark oconner and others, but not much stuff the utilizes the piano. does any have any reccomendations for songs and or recordings of good hillbilly music? my internet searches on the genre seem only to yeild 30something european boogie woogie players.
yeah i like grisman a lot. i just watched grateful dog a few weeks ago...its about a project that he and jerry garcia did before he passed away. good stuff
there are some interesting recordings of grisman and garcia doing miles davis tunes. the album is called 'so what' and seems to have been them just screwing around in the studio, as there are mutiple takes of some of some of the songs. defintely a trip.
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