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llm7b5 V7 Im7 progressions

i was wondering how important is to practice these progressions.
i have a certain book that recomends it, besides normal iim v7 imaj7
do you do(used to do) them as well thanks

by ado on 04/07/2009, 14:05

There are 20 comments, leave a comment.

how important is it to be able to play in minor keys?
if you plan on only playing major keys only i would not waste your
time practicing minor open a nice cold bud instead and enjoy.

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by Mike on 04/07/2009, 21:11

another brilliant post dr. mike

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by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 08:01

there is not much attention to these in levine's jazzpiano book(as far as i know)so after learning usual 2note,3note,4note 251 inside out in all keyes and inversions ,im quite put down picking some other book that says do these minor ones too,thinking what effort i made with the first ones.
i can find plenty of use for iim7b5 v7 `s in songs ,but practising movements from v7 to im7 seems not so timeworthy
excuse my ignorance if im missing something basic here but music theory is just not my strong point,i just love to play

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by ado on 04/08/2009, 10:44

it's not a question of ignorance, just a matter of how accomplished you want to be. it's all up to you. are you asking for a free pass to avoid learning something? go ahead:)

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by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 11:33

the problem is there are zillion things to learn,and short practice time available
i just wondered how important they are so i could save valuable practice time on something else of more importance if they are not so

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by ado on 04/08/2009, 13:03

true. it takes a lifetime and then some. only you know what's the most important for you at any given moment. like mike said, if you're not interested in playing in minor keys, why bother...

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by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 13:20

thank you dr whack. i thought my answer was brief, acurate, to the point and offered an additional suggestion for a useful way of passing time.

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by Mike on 04/08/2009, 14:25

iim7b5 v7b9 im is so common i don't see how you can avoid learning about it, it is essential if you play the standards. levine does not do a good job of covering it.

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by Jazz+ on 04/08/2009, 21:38

phil degreg covers it well.

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by Jazz+ on 04/08/2009, 21:39

thank you all for help,so i guess i`ll have to get them in those fingers

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by ado on 04/14/2009, 11:39

big standards that come to mind that use ii v i minor are beautiful love, what is this thing called love, yesterdays, autumn leaves, blue bossa, black orpheus,...

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by Jazz+ on 04/14/2009, 21:17

thanks,funny that half of them are my favorites and i`ve been playing them and singing for a few years on my coctail and restaurant gigs,but my interpretations been lacking that jazzy flavor,hopefully i get those 251minors in by cristmas
they are quite tricky though and seem more compicated then usual 251`s

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by ado on 04/15/2009, 14:40

which book are you referring to that recommends practising minor ii-v-is in all keys? practising anything in all keys is quite a chore for most people, but it certainly pays dividends in the long run. i'd suggest getting it together in a few 'easy' keys first (dm, cm, fm, gm?) and see how you get on. then you can add other keys as they crop up in the tunes you're playing.

one really useful technique i've come across that works for me is the following:

***whatever voicing you use for the half-diminished (ii) chord, move it up a minor 3rd, and you will automatically get a cool voicing for the v (alt) chord.***

so if you play dm7b5 as d f ab c, moving it up gives f ab b eb, which is a great sounding rootless g7 alt. it's good for more complex and two-handed voicings too - try it, but don't ask me why it works!

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by DrJazz on 04/22/2009, 15:39

yes the math of music is forever intrigueing.  adding on to your half diminihed voicing thing there dr. jazz.  go up a major 3rd from the half
diminished chord you used for v alt and you get a cool voicing for i minor.
   another way to say this is play.... d-7b5 to f-7b5 to a=7b5
and that is one way of voicing a minor ii vi i in the key of c minor.

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by Mike on 04/22/2009, 19:39

drjazz the book is jazzpiano,compl.guide to jazztheory&impro. by ch.klikovits ,though a simple book,great for begginer in jazz (such as i)as
i fouund levine jazz piano too overwhelming in the beggining,this one was more comprehensible to the system in which my brain learns.

for me the most difficult are the left hand ones since
my rock,blues&boogie backround and my left litllefinger always goes for the root
but to get that jazzthang going, i ve got practise ,,ruthlessly ´´
and its very rewarding when those 251s start to pop up when playing a tune.

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by ado on 04/23/2009, 14:18

for the ultimate ii -7b5 v7alt i- tune workout, learn you must believe in spring by michelle legrand.

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by Jazz+ on 04/24/2009, 06:53

mike - yes, like it! i hadn't thought of extending it like that.

personally i don't find the current practice of playing three different melodic minor scales to improvise over a minor ii–v-i very helpful. three different pentatonics works better for me, or just one blues scale for all three chords! i've outlined several other approaches in vol 2 of my book 'exploring jazz piano'.

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by DrJazz on 04/28/2009, 16:25

i love this progression.  all you have to do is look at half the tunes people play at jam sessions.  nearly any minor swing tune is going to have the ii7(b5) - v7 - i progression.

anytime you are resolving to the minor 1 you can probably use this progression.

for swing examples, look at:

softly as in a morning sunrise
lullaby of birdland
angel eyes
autumn leaves

this is used heavily in minor latin music.

blue bossa comes to mind immediately, there's shadow of your smile, and others.

practicing this progression can be a lot of fun. turn on the drum machine and start playing.  wish i could write some music into my post!  anyone here a hot shot programmer and thinks they can make a web plugin for wysiwyg music editing using the music xml standard?

anyway, they are useful and should be concentrated on just as much as you concentrate on anything else you practice.  the most simple thing to remember is that when you are harmonizing melodies in your solo playing, if you're going to a minor chord you can often harmonize the leading two melody notes using this progression, and it usually sounds pretty cool.

If I'm not back in 24 hours, call the president.

Scot is available for skype jazz piano lessons (and google hangouts, phone call, etc...)
Use the contact link at the top of the page.

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by Scot Ranney on 04/30/2009, 12:26

i was just practicing and realized that some other well used songs have this same thing in the 2nd - 3rd bar.

confirmation:

fm7 | em7b5 a7b9 | dm7

weaver of dreams:

cm7 | bm7m5 e7b9 | am7

If I'm not back in 24 hours, call the president.

Scot is available for skype jazz piano lessons (and google hangouts, phone call, etc...)
Use the contact link at the top of the page.

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by Scot Ranney on 05/01/2009, 09:53

thank you guys ,very helpfull info ,
yes many songs are quite similar e.g.
when i was learning blue bossa i was sort of
,,flying from the moon,,

i was wondering if the sly and the fam.stone was listening too much
to sunny and then he wrote if you want me to stay,omiting the min7b5 v7 or was it the other way,that a guy who wrote sunny heard if you want me to stay on the radio and the he wrote sunny adding 25 to make it more interesting

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by ado on 05/02/2009, 08:54

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llm7b5 V7 Im7 progressions

There are 20 comments, leave a comment.

by Mike on 04/07/2009, 21:11

by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 08:01

by ado on 04/08/2009, 10:44

by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 11:33

by ado on 04/08/2009, 13:03

by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 13:20

by Mike on 04/08/2009, 14:25

by Jazz+ on 04/08/2009, 21:38

by Jazz+ on 04/08/2009, 21:39

by ado on 04/14/2009, 11:39

by Jazz+ on 04/14/2009, 21:17

by ado on 04/15/2009, 14:40

by DrJazz on 04/22/2009, 15:39

by Mike on 04/22/2009, 19:39

by ado on 04/23/2009, 14:18

by Jazz+ on 04/24/2009, 06:53

by DrJazz on 04/28/2009, 16:25

by Scot Ranney on 04/30/2009, 12:26

by Scot Ranney on 05/01/2009, 09:53

by ado on 05/02/2009, 08:54

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llm7b5 V7 Im7 progressions

There are 20 comments, leave a comment.

by Mike on 04/07/2009, 21:11

by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 08:01

by ado on 04/08/2009, 10:44

by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 11:33

by ado on 04/08/2009, 13:03

by Dr. Whack on 04/08/2009, 13:20

by Mike on 04/08/2009, 14:25

by Jazz+ on 04/08/2009, 21:38

by Jazz+ on 04/08/2009, 21:39

by ado on 04/14/2009, 11:39

by Jazz+ on 04/14/2009, 21:17

by ado on 04/15/2009, 14:40

by DrJazz on 04/22/2009, 15:39

by Mike on 04/22/2009, 19:39

by ado on 04/23/2009, 14:18

by Jazz+ on 04/24/2009, 06:53

by DrJazz on 04/28/2009, 16:25

by Scot Ranney on 04/30/2009, 12:26

by Scot Ranney on 05/01/2009, 09:53

by ado on 05/02/2009, 08:54

Reply to Thread

Jazz Piano Notebook Series

"Latinesque"

LJP Jazz Piano Blogs

Most Recent Discussions

Articles

Top Sheetmusic Picks

Jazz piano education is cool.

Rock on. Follow your passion.

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